March 23, 2021

Florida Derby preview

Guests

  • Shug McGaugheytrainer, Greatest Honour
  • Saffie Joseph Jr, trainer, Collaborate
  • Jack Wolf, co-owner Starlight Racing, Spielberg
  • Mark Casse, trainer, Soup and Sandwich

Full transcript (note: transcript has not been edited)

Operator:               Good day, ladies and gentlemen.  Welcome to the NTRA Conference Call.  At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode.  Following the presentation, we will conduct a question-and-answer session.  At which time, instructions will be provided.  For operator assistance during the call, please press star zero.

I would now like to turn the meeting over to Ms. Hughes.  Please go ahead, Ms. Hughes.

Alicia Hughes:      Thank you so much, (James), and welcome everyone to this week’s NTRA Conference on the Road to the Triple Crown.  This week we will be previewing the 70th running of the Grade 1 Florida Derby which will offer 170 total qualifying points towards the derby including 100 points to the winner.  Saturday’s Florida Derby Program will feature a total six-graded stake races worth nearly $2 million at Gulfstream Park.

Today we are slated to be joined by Hall of Fame trainer, Mark Casse, who is set to send out Soup and Sandwich in the Florida Derby.  Soup and Sandwich has been an impressive winner in each of his two starts.  We are also slated to be joined by trainers, Saffie Joseph, Jr., who will saddle impressive maiden winner, Collaborate.  And we’re going to check in with owner, Jack Wolf, of Starlight Stables, (quote) owner of graded stakes winner, Spielberg.

First up, however, we are fortunate enough to be joined by Hall of Famer Shug McGaughey who has the expected Florida Derby favorite in Greatest Honour.  Greatest Honour has won his last three starts and he comes into this week in Florida Derby off a – off a win last time out in the Grade 2 Fountain of Youth Stakes.

Shug, thank you so much for joining us today.

Shug McGaughey:      Thank you, Alice.

Alicia Hughes:      Shug, I said, going back to the Fountain of Youth Stakes, it looks like there the Greatest Honour was kind of in trouble with about three furlongs to go in that race and then he was able to kind of demonstrate a very impressive kick in that stretch.  How worried were you at that point watching the race and what did you kind of learn about him, that day with the way that he was able to rally?

Shug McGaughey:      Well, as you can see, he wasn’t – he was – things weren’t going the way – the way I expect it.  I mean in the Holy Bull everything went right then Fountain of Youth, everything went wrong.  Once (Jose) got into the outside there by the quarter pole, whenever he got – need to pick up his (horse) was pretty quick and finished up quick.  So you know, I think I learned that to overcome some controversy and still was good enough to finish and to win.

Alicia Hughes:      Absolutely.  That’s got to be so key, especially for these young horses when you’re thinking about how – the adversity that they probably going to handle when they get it against a 19 other friends in the derby starting gate.

Shug McGaughey:      Well, that’s right.  I mean that’s a – the 20-horse field, the derby is the tough thing and unless you’re on the horses on the lead and can carry a mile a quarter, the others are probably going to run into some problems during the race.  The post position has a lot to do with it.  First turn has a lot to do with it and then you can kind of sort yourself out going out on the backside but I thought it was a good learning experience for him and he was still able to win.

Alicia Hughes:      And you know, I said he’s a horse – he ran well enough in his first few starts but it took him a bit to finally kind of get over that sort of hump.  What do you think has been the difference between him becoming the – developing into the real leading derby contender that he is currently?

Shug McGaughey:      Well, the biggest thing is two turns, I mean with his pedigree, he was begging to (ran farther).  In hindsight, I think the two (7H) races, his first two races where he could finish and I think he learned a lot and then first time around two turns, he run really good.  He’s still a little green going around two turns that was at Aqueduct.  He just got beat and I think that helped him get to where – to where he is today.

He was sort of able to finish in his first two races and eat some dirt and same thing in the race at Aqueduct.  He was back, probably a little bit farther than I thought he would be but he was able to make a good run and just couldn’t beat by the horse that was sort of on the leader, (follow) the place.  And so, I think that – I think the race can help him get to where he is today.

Alicia Hughes:      Sounds good.  Well, Shug, I said I know we have a full slate of media joining us today.  So with that, I will – we will check in with our operator to see if they have any questions for you.

Shug McGaughey:      Thanks.

Operator:               And ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we will go to questions.  If you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.  Again if you would like to queue for question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.

And our first question comes from the line of (Tim Reynolds).  Go ahead please.  Your line is open.

(Tim Reynolds):    Thank you.  Thank you, Shug, for doing this.

Shug McGaughey:      Hi, (Tim), thanks.

(Tim Reynolds):    I wanted to ask you, you’ve obviously had a very deliberate approach your whole career about what constitutes a derby horse.  What is that process like for you in identifying who really belongs in that mix?

Shug McGaughey:      Well, I think the races are the main thing for me.  I don’t want to force – my idea is not to force a horse there but it is race that’s taking there and that’s what I’ve done with some of the other horses that I’ve run in the derby and especially with Orb.  It was all question mark with him.  You know, his allowance race down here in January.  It was a question mark as the Holy Bull was up for Greatest Honour.

The Fountain of Youth was another step that we want to try to pass and Saturday in the Florida Derby will be another one I think.  Maybe the races are starting to play in our hand a little bit now with – for Greatest Honour going mile-an-eighth, should suit him a lot better than a mile-a-sixteenth tier on a short – mile-and-sixteenth on the short – for the short post.

So, I’m looking forward to kind of getting him to stretch out.  But my philosophy is unless we think we deserve to be there, we will be there.

(Tim Reynolds):    Thank you, sir.  Good luck Saturday.

Shug McGaughey:      Thank you.

Operator:               And ladies and gentlemen, again as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.

Our next question comes from the line of (Ejay Clark).  Go ahead please.  Your line is open.

(Ejay Clark):         Shug, thanks for being on the conference today, pleasure to talk to you again.  I just wanted to ask you, a couple of years ago, 2019, you were on the derby trail Code of Honor, and a very good horse and became a very accomplished 3-year-old as we all know.

Greatest Honour, where would you – you won the derby in 2013 obviously that were talking about with Orb.  Where would you put Code of Honor and Greatest Honour and Orb together as far as Orb was a derby winner but how about these other two?  How this two particular horses sort of match up as a horse to get you to the Kentucky Derby?

Shug McGaughey:      Well, that’s not easy question to answer but I’ll try to do the best.  I think Greatest Honour’s future is in front of him and – as I also thought that with Code of Honor.  Orb came to hand pretty quick.  Once he broke his maiden, there are still some question marks with me about how good he was and then he – then he won that allowance race which I thought was going to be a difficult task.

And then, he won the Fountain of Youth when we’re backing him up sixteenth to the mile and he was able to win the Florida Derby and the Kentucky Derby.  And I think with Greatest Honour, I think that still he got things to learn.  I think this is going to be his friend once we get him stretched out (farther) with his pedigree and his style of running, his looks, his physical looks.

And with Code of Honor, there’s always sort of a question mark because he was a young horse.  He wasn’t – he was foaled late May, he was always sort of immature in his running.  I think that when we have to scratch him in the Breeder’s Cup at Louisville when he got sick, the morning of the Breeder’s Cup kind of set us back a little bit and then I probably hadn’t done enough with him when I ran him here in the first race in Much Macho Man or whatever he was and then I kind of learned something up – off of that.

And he ran great in the Fountain of Youth, then we came back in the Florida Derby and he just called (a speed) favor in racetrack for the horses on the lead that we all – that we couldn’t catch it.  It took us out of our running style and where we had to kind of go after him – the horse a little bit earlier.  And then, you know, in the Kentucky Derby, it was all that (Max) at the head of the stretch I think that compromised him also.

I don’t know if that calls in the race but when Maximum Security came back out, I mean came back in, he sort of (timed it) up on him a little bit and I think you kind of shot away from that little bit.  And (Johnny) told me he had a little trouble getting him running again but then, they had a great summer and fall after that.

And I think that even though Greatest Honour is further along, racing-wise, than he was maybe at this time, I still think his future is in front of him.

(Ejay Clark):         I realized that was kind of a long question there.  I want to go back to, he’s won three in a row and since winning his – breaking his maiden at Gulfstream Park, he’s come back to win two very, very key races down there in the Holy Bull and the Fountain of Youth Stakes and won the first one as you said was easier, then he overcame (trouble) and win the Fountain of Youth.

How much – to be able to win these two very important preps to the Florida Derby and on to the Kentucky Derby, how much confidence does Greatest Honour bring you, coming in to the Florida Derby with the way he’s doing right now?

Shug McGaughey:      Well, I got a lot of confidence in him.  I mean these races will get more difficult as it go along and I think he can – I think he can overcome that kind of stuff.  And I think with him winning here, going a mile-and-16th over this – over speed favoring racetrack on the short – with the short stretch because you stop in the 16th pole and says a lot about him.

I don’t think that’s what he wants to do.  Last week or in the Fountain of Youth, he – the horses on the lead, Drain The Clock, who I think is a very, very good horse, he kind of open up, leaving the quarter pole.  I thought (even) would kick in and we’re going to have a hard time catching him but he caught him at – he caught him in a hurry and he win by that far but he kind of win one pulled up.  So, I think that was a sort of a compliment in its own right.

So, I still – in his races that he’s won down here this winter, I still don’t think that’s what he wants to do.  I think that with his pedigree and the way he looks as I said earlier and his running style I think we’re going a mile-and-eight, he’s going to help and even go a mile-and-quarter is going to help even more.

(Ejay Clark):         Shug, just one last question.  Could you talk about – he’s homebred for Courtlandt Farms – can you talk about your relationship with the folks there at the farm?

Shug McGaughey:      Well, this is new relationship.  I really had horses for them for about 10 months now.  I think the first ones came around the 1st of May or right after the derby and he was one of them and (Mr. M) has been easy.  Ernie Retamoza who is on the farm there kind of runs the show and he’s been – I’ve known him or known of him for quite a while.

We had – he’s been very easy to work with as well as Mr. Adam – Mr. Adam has and I think that along with Greatest Honour, we’ve had a horse 10 for 10 I think who has stopped right now, I think is got a – who is second in national and second in Remsen, I think got a really good chance to come back.  It will be really nice horse and I think there are some others around here too and so I predicted we’re going to have a good, long, meaningful relationship and to starting all pretty good again like Greatest Honour.

(Ejay Clark):         Thank you, Shug.  Good luck on Saturday.

Shug McGaughey:      Thank you.

Operator:               And again as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.

And our next question comes from the line of (Tom Dicha).  Go ahead please.  Your line is open.

(Tom Dicha):        Thank you.  Thanks, Shug.  If he would have win Saturday, he has done something no other horses done, win the three Gulfstream graded preps and the main reason is most people don’t run that many.  Is this something about this horse?  He’ll go into the derby I guess at seven or eight start which is unusual.  Is it a matter of seasoning; is it a matter of conditioning, what made you decide this kind of regimen for the horse?

Shug McGaughey:      Well, we just sort of procession-type thing.  We broke his maiden down here in December, the next logical start was the Holy Bull and still there was questions out.  For me, where does this horse stand and he wasn’t – in the Holy Bull he wasn’t the favorite.  Prime Factor was and – so you know, I just – I thought he needed racing.

I think – I’m hoping that racing moves him along at every step but I mean you are right.  He has raced a lot but he’s been able to – he has taken it and I kind of had in my mind if he’s this kind of a horse, that he’s going to need racing and also when we got him down here, that’s what we’ve done.

(Tom Dicha):        Thank you.

Shug McGaughey:      You’re welcome.

Alicia Hughes:      Well, Shug, like I said it’s always – like I said is a great pleasure to have you on and I said it looks like you have a horses myriad top – very top contender for this year.

Shug McGaughey:      Well, we hope so Alice and thank you for having me and we’re looking forward to Saturday and looking forward to the process.  That’s what this is, it’s a process and – so we’ll see where he takes us.

Alicia Hughes:      Perfect.  Like I said – Shug, like I said, always a pleasure to have you on and get a chance to hear some wisdom from you.  Thank you so much for doing this and best of luck this weekend.

Shug McGaughey:      All right, thank you very much, bye.

Alicia Hughes:      Thank you.  Bye.  And next up now we’re going to check in with trainer, Saffie Joseph, Jr., who has sort of derby contender Collaborate.  Collaborate broke his maiden in pretty spectacular fashion at Gulfstream on February 27th, winning in gate to wire fashion by 12-1/2 lane.  Saffie, thank you so much for joining us today.

Saffie Joseph:        Thanks for having me on.

Alicia Hughes:      Thank you so much for as I said for taking the time out for this.  It goes without saying Collaborate really opened a lot of eyes with the way that he won last time out but I think I read where – your remarked were, you weren’t surprised to see him put forth that kind of an effort.  What was it specifically that you were seeing from him that was giving you that kind of that level of confidence?

Saffie Joseph:        Just was the way we trained him.  Every time we work him before he ran, he would impress more and more and he like, we would ask him a bit more each week and each time he would deliver like he – it wasn’t fazing him.  The way he moves and he just did things so effortless that when he got beat the first time, that was a big disappointment just because he had (inaudible) himself so much that I didn’t think he would get beat.

But I thought that day he got valuable experience and – I mean you always try to look for the positive and every negative.  And the positive was that he got a lot of experience and he showed he had talents but until he came back on a run like, you never – you always want to see them do it first.  It was more a relief second time out because we thought he had that kind of talent.

Alicia Hughes:      Yes, and last year, you were able to get your first derby starting – derby started last year with New York Traffic who I believe finished eighth in the race.  Given that last year was such a totally readjusted schedule due to COVID, is there anything at all that you can kind of take from that experience that you can apply maybe to this season?

Saffie Joseph:        I mean just get in there last year, you learned a lot more.  As far as – it’s her first time doing something, so you learned – obviously they’re going to have a (crowd) but one thing I did learn last year on the walkover, even without the crowd, the horses pretty got a little keyed up.

And this year like if we get back there, maybe put some earplugs in their ears going over or something like that (inaudible) from last year.  But as far as just training, you’re going to do the same thing basically and hope your horse stays somewhat healthy into the race.

Alicia Hughes:      Sounds good.  As I said, with that Saffie, I will throw it back to our operator who will check in to see if the media has any questions for you today.

Saffie Joseph:        OK.

Operator:               And ladies and gentlemen, again as a reminder if you would like to queue up for a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.

And our first question comes from the line of (Jay Prisman).  Go ahead please.  Your line is open.

(Jay Prisman):       Thank you.  Saffie, how are you?

Saffie Joseph:        Hey (Jay), how you’re doing?

(Jay Prisman):       Good, thanks.  I had a few questions.  First off regarding Collaborate, is this the most expensive auction buy that’s coming to your barn to this point?

Saffie Joseph:        Yes, he’s definitely the most expensive auction buy and we thank e Five Thoroughbreds and Three Chimneys for giving us the opportunity with him.

(Jay Prisman):       And following to that, did you feel any sort of extra pressure to have a horse with that kind of price tag come into you or was it more of the appreciation of the opportunity or both?

Saffie Joseph:        I mean just as far as you appreciate the opportunity present – he’s a big, good looking horse, I mean when you see him come in and you just – I was like, wow, as far as look but I didn’t mean they looked good, they’re going to be able to run good.

Once we started training him, we realized how good he was, then you start to feel the pressure because you’re trying to relay the information to the owners of how good he’s doing and you want the horse then to justify that.

Thankfully, the second time out, was his first time out got beat but I thought we got valuable experience.  We probably did better at night at 7:00 p.m. because I was so disappointed I got him beat myself and to see him do it a second time out, that was kind of horse we thought he was.

(Jay Prisman):       About a year ago at this time, you had approximately 65 to 70 horses in your barn.  I’m wondering now with the numbers of – what your numbers are up to and where all you’re currently stabled at?

Saffie Joseph:        We’re like 100-plus right now and obviously (inaudible) coming yet.  We’re training for really good owners and last we make the training and when you train for the owners at rehab, you’re going to be successful and just show you the – do everything the right way in.  You have the horses, the talent to – like Collaborate and some others.  We’re thankful for the opportunity and we’re just keep trying to get better and better.

(Jay Prisman):       And then I just wanted to check on a couple of your horses as to where they might be.  Mischievous Alex is supposed to run in the Carter, right?

Saffie Joseph:        Yes, Mischievous Alex is going to go to the Carter.  Irad Ortiz (inaudible) Carter.

(Jay Prisman):       And the Drain The Clock?  I’m sorry, I apologize I think (inaudible) what you’re saying.

Saffie Joseph:        Irad Ortiz – Irad Ortiz will ride Mischievous Alex in the Carter.

(Jay Prisman):       Got you and then Drain The Clock goes to the Bay Shore?

Saffie Joseph:        Yes, he’s going to go to the Bayshore and Irad Ortiz will ride him also in the Bay Shore.

(Jay Prisman):       OK.  And where is – how far away is New York Traffic from returning?

Saffie Joseph:        He’s going to run very soon.  He’s going to probably run in the next 10 days.  He’s probably going to run at Aqueduct.

(Jay Prisman):       Very well.  All right, thank you for all of that.  I appreciate it.

Saffie Joseph:        Anytime, (Jay).

Operator:               And again as a reminder, if you’d like to enter the Q&A queue, please press star and then one on your telephone keypad.

Our next question comes from the line of Jenny Reese.  Go ahead please.  Your line is open.

Jenny Reese:         Hey Saffie, I actually have two more 3-year olds to ask you about.  You got two horses going in the Jeff Ruby at Turfway which this year is a 100-point race to the winner.  What can you tell us about Moonlite Strike and I also understand that you supplemented Awesome Jerry for the same race?

Saffie Joseph:        Yes, Moonlite Strike, these are horses carried average for them in the Tampa Bay Derby, kind of jumps up and run above his odds, actually surprised us.  He ran third at (Daisy) and picked up 10 points and he had one more from the race at Oakland.  The owner wants to give him a chance to continue on, to see if he could pick up some more points.

We don’t feel like he’s the best horse in the class obviously but we feel like he has a chance if he was surrounded 1, 2, 3 could earn a spot in the derby line up and it’s – it would be nice for the owner to have a derby runner.  So, we thought that Jeff Ruby was the best opportunity to pick up those points.  It’s a 100-point race and it’s on a surface, it’s a (inaudible) has a lot of Turf pedigree in his breeding, so we figured with the Turf pedigree be in there, maybe (inaudible) be there and they help move him up a little bit.

Awesome Jerry, again we initially we weren’t going to keep him on the trail but some very like last minute thing that we’re deciding to give him one more chance again on the (Tapeta) hoping to – it would help improve – he needs improving and I hope it will help him.

Jenny Reese:         Like if you finish, 1, 2, they should be in the derby and so that is the goal.  I mean is the goal to get to the derby or is the goal that these are – you mentioned that kind of your average form, that these are horses that really could make noise in the derby.

Saffie Joseph:        I mean it’s hard for me to tell you that they can make noise in the derby on what is shown so far but if they could like, like Moonlite Strike, he has 11 points.  If he was to probably even run third, it will give him a chance to get him to the Kentucky Derby.  Second, we’ll obviously guarantee it but it just having a runner for the owner to get to the derby, it will be nice opportunity for them and that’s what we’re trying to aim for too.

I mean you got to in the race, you never what’s going to happen but for me to tell you that, we have – if we get to the derby, that we think we win the Kentucky Derby, no.  So it’s very farfetched but you’ve seen some crazier things happened on derby day than ever.  So just to get there will be the first kind of goal and that’s what we’re trying to do right now.

Jenny Reese:         Yes and in fact having gone through the derby, do you feel that more about the importance of trying to get owners that experience if they have a horse that earns the points versus saying, like Shug was just on and he said, I’m not going to list.  I really, really think that I’ve got one of the top horses to beat.

But having gone through the derby, even – did it make you realize even more, if I can get these owners there, then they deserve the chance to loading the gate and see what happens.

Saffie Joseph:        Yes, every owner is different.  I mean every owner has a different perspective on their horse and someone just try to get to the derby I think is important.  It’s hard to get there in general and so I try to do – I try do it what each owner wants.

For instance, Drain The Clock, he picked up 20 points in the Fountain of Youth and it was probably easy to pick up a couple more points to get into the derby but that ownership group, they don’t want to just get through derby if they can’t win the derby.  So, we’re cutting them back and (tripling) taking a different route.  So, each owner is different as far as what they want and we just try to do the best by each owner.

Jenny Reese:         OK, final question.  These horses are both by Liam’s Map.  Is that just the sire that you had – that you like particularly or is there anything in – just coincidence or do you have a lot of Liam’s Map?

Saffie Joseph:        Just coincidence basically.  Obviously, Liam’s Map is off to a very good start and he’s had some good horses on the Turf also and that’s why we’re taking the – we think both of these horses may end up eventually being better on the Turf.  The (Tapeta) being the close that you will get to the Turf as far as picking up points (inaudible) they read us.  That’s why we’re giving this chance and going this route, hoping that helps elevate them form wise.

Jenny Reese:         And this really is my final question but do you have riders lined up?

Saffie Joseph:        Yes, Rafael Hernandez is going to ride Moonlite Strike and there’s no rider lined up yet for Awesome Jerry because it’s such a late decision.  We’re just still in the work to trying to figure it out exactly.

Jenny Reese:         OK, all right, great.  Thank you.  I appreciate it.

Saffie Joseph:        Thank you, Jenny.

Operator:               Our next question comes from the line of (Danny Brewer).  Go ahead please.  Your line is open.

(Danny Brewer):   Saffie, what do you like most about Collaborate?

Saffie Joseph:        I think I like everything about him.  There’s not much to dislike him.  He’s a great looking horse.  Again, I said that, it doesn’t always carryover to the horse being good but you look at him and he – the way he stands and his presence, height and size, when he works.  I mean he’s everything – I think he’s most definitely the most talented horse that we ever had in our hands.  I mean his ability – there’s a lot of ability, (you know).

We’re little behind schedule, so we’re asking him to do something that is going to be a tall task but he seems like he has that ability to overcome it.  And the first time again he beat was in – in hindsight was a blessing in disguise because we – he got a lot of education from that.

He was actually more tired the first time out than he was second time out.  We just hope he can build on that and show up again and run the similar race.  If he does, we think where – we have a horse that’s very capable.

(Danny Brewer):   You mentioned his work – it looks like his works are all really, really strong and (inaudible) win, frontrunner, he was out front.  Speed, you really, really like his speed?

Saffie Joseph:        Yes, he’s – I mean he’s very versatile.  I mean first time out, he missed the break, he came from behind, he took all the dirt and then second time out, just naturally he sat forwardly and he kept (cruising).  I think that’s one of his advantages.  He had the high cruising speed and he stays pretty strongly.  Ideally, we would like to – on Saturday to break (hair) from that and be in the forward position and just run his race.

(Danny Brewer):   Well, I appreciate your time then.  I wish you the best of luck.

Saffie Joseph:        Thank you very much.

Operator:               Our next question comes from the line of (Tom Gesha).  Go ahead please.  Your line is open.

(Tom Gesha):        Saffie, it’s a widespread belief that Collaborate would be on the – (off the way one), his maiden race.  Do you see him on the (leader)?  I guess certainly, very prominent early.

Saffie Joseph:        Yes, I would hope once he breaks away from the (inaudible).  I mean (Tyler) is running in two things now and we’re just going to leave it up to him.  You would think you would have a