NTRA Communications National Media Teleconference Road to the Triple Crown
Guests:
Racing Manager Justin Zayat
Trainer Jeremiah Englehart
Trainer Ron Moquett
Trainer Arnaud Delacour
Jim Mulvihill: Welcome, everybody, to this week’s Road to the Triple Crown teleconference. We are finally down to the last weekend of Kentucky Derby prep races and by Saturday evening we’ll have a pretty complete picture of the Derby field. A lot can happen, of course, over the next few weeks between now and entry day on April 29, but more or less we’ll know what we’ve got after these final two Road to the Kentucky Derby Championship Series races on Saturday. Those, of course, are the $1 million Arkansas Derby at Oaklawn Park with 170 points up for grabs, 100 of those to the winner; and the $250,000 Coolmore Lexington at Keeneland worth 17 points with 10 to the winner.
Now, a Lexington win alone is unlikely to earn anybody a spot in the Derby starting gate, but you’ll have to keep an eye on the horses that already have Derby points, like Divining Rod and Tiznow R J, who could put themselves into the Derby picture with a big effort on Saturday. That Derby field, as most of you know, is limited to 20 starters. Right now, the 20th and 21st ranked horses on the leader board have 30 points. Those are Bolo and Prospect Park, who are two very good California-based colts. But even more intriguing than who will make the Derby field is who will vie for favoritism among this unusually talented crop of three-year-olds. Last weekend we saw Carpe Diem and Dortmund state their cases. This weekend we get to see if American Pharaoh can keep himself in the mix for that role as the public’s top choice.
Now we’ve got a lot to talk about in the next hour regarding the Arkansas Derby and the Lexington, but I have to brief you real quick on the status of the TV broadcasts. The Lexington is the next stop on the “Jockey Club Tour on FOX Sports 1”. They’ll be live at Keeneland on Saturday from 4:30 to 5:30 p.m. Eastern, and that broadcast is also going to include the Grade 1 Jenny Wiley for older females on the turf, and I believe last year’s winner, Hard Not to Like, is expected to be in there. The Arkansas Derby is on HRTV, but you can also find live coverage via the Horse Racing Radio Network. They’ll be live at Keeneland and Oaklawn on Saturday from 6 to 7 p.m. Eastern Time.
Now later in this call we’ll be joined by Jeremiah Englehart. He’s the trainer of Arkansas Derby hopeful Bridget’s Big Luvy; and we’ve got Ron Moquett, trainer of Far Right, who could put himself into the Derby field if he hits the board in the Arkansas Derby; and Arnaud Delacour, who will saddle Divining Rod in the Lexington.
But first, we get to talk more about the big star on Saturday, and that’s 2014 Eclipse Award Winner as Champion Two-Year-Old, American Pharoah. He’s likely to be the odds on favorite in the Arkansas Derby after a smashing three-year-old debut four weeks ago. Last week we had trainer Bob Baffert on this call, and if you need any quotes from Bob you can find those on NTRA.com. There’s a transcript and an audio file of last week’s call. But this week we’re pleased to welcome Justin Zayat. He’s the racing and stallion manager for Zayat Stables, who, in addition to the favorite, will also be running Mr. Z in the Arkansas Derby.
Now a little background. Justin’s father, Ahmed Zayat, founded Zayat Stables in 2005. Since then, Zayat has ranked among the leading owners in North America seven times, including the top spot in 2008. They’ve campaigned 13 Grade 1 winners and they’ve been all around the Derby in recent history, including three runners-up in Pioneerof The Nile, Nehro, and Bodemeister.
Justin Zayat, thanks for joining us. You’re on with Jim Mulvihill.
Justin Zayat: Thanks for having me, Jim.
Jim Mulvihill: It’s our pleasure. We’re all very, very excited to see American Pharoah again this weekend. If you could, just tell us how he’s done since the Rebel and what you expect to see from him on Saturday?
Justin Zayat: He’s been doing extremely well. You know, we’ve been—I’m sure you guys have all seen his works on the videos. They’ve been as impressive as a work can possibly be. You know, he’s holding his flesh very well, his attitude is well. He’s coming into the race in as good of shape as we could hope.
Jim Mulvihill: That’s terrific to hear. Now let’s talk about the campaign. The colt is based in California with Bob, but he’s taking the Hot Springs route to Louisville. So when you and your dad and Bob were talking about this spring, can you just take us back to those conversations and tell us what the considerations were that led you to take the Arkansas route?
Justin Zayat: Well, when we first started bringing him back we kind of just said we’re going to let the horse kind of gradually tell us where he’s at, and we’re going to pick his races based on when he’s ready. He could’ve been ready for the San Felipe, but at that time we decided one more work would benefit him. You know, stretching a mile and sixteenth first off the layoff of six months we thought the extra week would be beneficial to him. You know, Bob’s had a lot of luck shipping into Oaklawn, so there was no fear for us going to Oaklawn. The track there we’ve had a lot of good luck in the years, so just a good rapport and that’s the reason why we chose the Oaklawn route. For us to come back again, because the horse shipped well, he traveled back and he’s getting seasoning shipping back and forth, and it really will freshen up the horse like that so that is the reason that we’re taking the Oaklawn route. In addition, Bodemeister, who won the Arkansas Derby and he led to a nice run in the Kentucky Derby, so we’re very fond of the Arkansas Derby route.
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent, and so far everything’s worked out beautifully. Really, you couldn’t ask for more from him, not just this year but at the end of last summer as well. He’s won so easily in all three of his wins, which is great. That’s exactly what you would want. But as far as being prepared for the Derby, can you talk about any worries about being battletested and if there’s a part of you that is maybe hoping that he’ll be challenged by somebody seriously on Saturday?
Justin Zayat: For sure. I mean that’s a concern to anyone that your horse has never been battletested, but I think that’s more of a credit to the horse himself. You know, he’s a naturally brilliant, brilliant horse. If you watch his works, he just does everything so effortlessly. So I think that’s honestly the reason that he’s never been challenged. Maybe last race he was the champion and they were a little scared to go after him, but this is the reason, like that is not a concern to me. I think he’s got the talent to do it, and if I’m worried about seasoning with Bob Baffert then I’m in the wrong hands. You know, I’m in the hands of the guy who has won the Kentucky Derby three times. He knows how to do it, so there’s no concerns about him being seasoned up for me. I just think this horse honestly is just a spectacular, spectacular horse, and that’s the reason why he’s honestly been unchallenged in all his races. If you look as a two-year-old, he ran against a really nice horse, Calculator, and then Texas Red, who ended up winning the Breeders’ Cup was behind him, and they weren’t challenging him on the leader either in those races. So I just really think it’s just the natural brilliance of our horse. It’s the reason why people say he so-called untested.
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent. Well, we are very glad to be joined by Justin Zayat, and, Michelle, I’m going to ask you to check with the media and see what questions they have for Justin.
Operator: The first question comes from Ron Flatter of Fox News Radio. Please go ahead.
Ron Flatter: Hi, Justin. First of all, on American Pharoah, to follow-up on one of Jim’s questions, in terms of whether he would actually have to chase the pace as opposed to setting it, is there anything in the mornings that you see that would tell you that there would be any problems there, or for that matter that he has—let’s go the other way on that, if he has got something that we have yet to see?
Justin Zayat: For sure. I mean honestly to me right now that’s not a concern. We’ve actually rated him in the mornings behind horses, and he’s not a headstrong horse on the lead who is trying to pull you the whole way. He’s shut off and he’s a relaxed horse. That’s the way he runs. You know, his demeanor has always been a very, very relaxed horse and I really don’t think that’s going to be a concern if he ever has to fend a horse. If there’s a horse who wants to go out there and try to dual him on the lead or go with him, he could easily sit off of that horse. He’s not a (inaudible) horse. He’s a very, very rideable and controlled horse.
Ron Flatter: Quick note on Mr. Z; five jocks in the last five. You’ve tried the blinkers; you’ve tried the no blinkers. Just what’s your thoughts about him going forward and do you think he’s definitely a Derby horse?
Justin Zayat: (Inaudible) he’s a Derby horse? I mean if I’m listening to Wayne Lukas who has won as many Derbies as he has, then he’s telling me yes. I mean the horse to me obviously still has more to prove that he belongs in the Derby, but if you look at his Los Alamitos Futurity he finished a nose behind Dortmund and Firing Line, who are extremely, extremely respected horses on the Derby Trail right now, so he was only a length—a nose behind them in the Los Al Futurity. I mean you can see his last races you could say he’s gone a little backward since then, but he’s been training forwardly. He’s a healthy, sound, sound horse. He’s doing everything right, and time will tell if he’s going to be a Derby horse. You know, we’re not 100% committed to running him today in the race. We’re entering the race and we’ll see. But he’s as battletested as any horse on the Derby Trail has come. He’s run since June last year because he’s an extremely talented horse. So right now, to me, it’s not a concern of him being a Derby horse, it’s, to me, if he’s actually going to, first of all, get in the Derby, how he’s performing, his demeanor, his coat. You know, we’re just not going to run a horse in the Derby just to run in the Derby. I’m blessed enough to have American Pharoah and El Kabeir in the Derby, so if we feel at the time that Mr. Z belongs in the Derby, if he qualifies in the Derby then we’ll run it. But there’s no commitment right now to running him in the Arkansas Derby, we’re just simply entering him in the Arkansas Derby.
Ron Flatter: Got it. Quick—last one from me. Quick note, El Kabeir, where do you stand as far as the jockey selection there?
Justin Zayat: We are still mulling on the decision day by day. There’s no decision based on the jockey right now. You know, we have opinions coming from all sources. John is telling us that he is leaning towards a change. Personally myself I am leaning towards a change. My dad is in the middle. He doesn’t know what he wants. You know, his heart is telling him we’ve got to—we should keep C.C., but my brain is telling me I’d have to change him. You know, he’s a 54-year-old jockey going to the Derby who has never ridden in it before. You either have an experienced rider who’s gone to the Derby before, who has been in a 20-horse field, who has handled the pressure, but there’s a lot that goes into it. You know, and C.C. has known that from day one that it was just a race to race commitment. You could also recall that he was the substitute rider for Calvin Borel, who was supposed to ride the horse in the Jerome; who was flying in that day but he had a death in his family so he couldn’t make it. So C.C. at the time was a replacement jockey on the horse.
Ron Flatter: Thank you, Justin.
Jim Mulvihill: Justin, did you want to add to that about C.C. or El Kabeir’s rider?
Justin Zayat: For sure. We were taking a risk by racing with him. You know we also lost on him at the Withers at one to five and people were telling us you must take C.C. off now; how could he deal with Classy Class on the lead going that fast for the whole entire race, and we stuck with C.C. because we believed he was an experienced rider at Aqueduct, and that was the key that led us to riding C.C. in the first (inaudible). Now we’re going out of Aqueduct, so he hasn’t really ridden at Churchill Downs a lot, so there’s a concern about this and being able to adapt to the track there, so that’s where we stand right now.
We have been one of C.C.’s biggest supporters through the years. If you look at his last graded stake winner before El Kabeir, then you have I think 2010 or 2009 with our own filly Heart Ashley. We believe in C.C. as a jockey, it’s just that I believe right now for the biggest race of our career it’s about the horse. It’s not about the jockey right now. It’s about what is best for El Kabeir and what’s best to win the Kentucky Derby.
Jennie Rees: Yes, Justin, can you talk about what you all want to get out of the Arkansas Derby with American Pharoah? I mean would you like to see him tested a little more and would there be concerns given that, you know, he’s only had two races and might’ve been off a little bit before that maybe he won’t get tested enough, or just what are you going to be looking for Saturday?
Justin Zayat: Honestly, Jennie, I just want him to win. That’s what I’m looking for. It’s the first time stretching out one-time a mile and an eighth; you know, I’d like to see him do it in a nice fashion. But right now we’re just looking for him to win. You know, I think he’s coming into the race in as good of shape as he could be. You guys know Bob doesn’t ship unless he thinks he’s going to win, so right now that’s just my concern is just about winning. I’m not looking to rate him or see what’s going to happen. If that develops, the horse is capable of doing it; you know, he’s extremely talented. But we’re just coming in the race to win right now. That’s all I’m looking for.
Jennie Rees: When you look at the other Derby preps, are you watching kind of like say Carpe Diem or somebody thinking, you know, I can’t wait to see them all in the same gate and see what happens, and, you know, see what happens when another brilliant horse is in there?
Justin Zayat: For sure. I mean I totally agree with you. This is as good of a crop I could ever remember since I’ve been in this game. I don’t remember where there’s been such dominant horses like Dortmund, Carpe Diem, American Pharoah. They’re just—it’s really unbelievable having all these horses line up. Dortmund’s undefeated. You can’t say anything bad about an undefeated horse. American Pharoah almost should be undefeated but his first race you guys all know what happened there. So this is an impressive of a crop as you’re going to get, and I can’t wait. I really, really am praying every single day that they’re all staying healthy because I just want to see the best horses—the best three-year-olds in the country square off in the Kentucky Derby. I think that’s what the whole race is about is getting the best horses, and usually in the years we’ve had a lot, a lot big defections leading up to the Derby, and I’m just praying that we could see all the best horses in the gate because I think that gives every single horse an opportunity to see who is the best of the best.
Jennie Rees: You mentioned that you’re not committed to running Mr. Z in the Arkansas Derby but you will enter. What would be the factors that you would be looking for in the next, you know, few days, and if you could just talk about the decision to go on and enter him?
Justin Zayat: For sure. The reason we’re going to enter him is there’s one reason; this is Wayne Lukas. If Wayne wishes to tell me, Justin, I believe in all my heart of all the years I’ve been training that this horse is a Derby horse, he deserves to be in the Arkansas Derby, I’m begging you please, please let me run him. We ourselves as the owners are on the fence, but how much could I possibly tell Wayne Lukas? I’m a 23-year-old guy. He’s the greatest trainer of all time. There’s only so much I could say to possibly—that I’m going to trump him. I will never be able to trump him in whatever I try to do or think, so I always have to listen to the greatest trainer of all time before I’m listening to myself who has been only in the game for 10 years. We’re going to enter the horse, and we’re going to—it’ll depend on the post positions. I’m not exactly sure where we’re honestly looking for him to draw. Who knows if American Pharoah draws the one hole and Mr. Z—crazy things can happen. You know, it depends on how he ships. Maybe he’ll get sick on the flight. I’m praying all these things don’t happen, but this is horse racing; crazy things happen. You know that.
Jennie Rees: Yes. Well, since you all own both horses, let me ask you this. Would it stun you if Mr. Z beat American Pharaoh?
Justin Zayat: Would it stun me if Mr. Z beats American Pharoah? I will be shocked personally. I would love—if I run Mr. Z in the race I’d be praying for him to finish second, because I honestly don’t think he can hold a candle to American Pharoah at this moment. I’ve had a lot of, lot of good horses through the years; Bodemeister, you guys all know, but I think American Pharoah is the horse of a lifetime. I’m blessed myself that I could possibly have another horse like American Pharoah, but I think it may be really, really hard to see one like that. That’s how high we are on this horse.
Danny Brewer: Let’s turn back the clock to the Breeders’ Cup when American Pharoah was injured; heart sank, I’m sure. Then you fast forward to the Rebel, and the way he ran, was it a great relief when you guys saw him and the way he performed in the Rebel Stakes?
Justin Zayat: For sure. I mean he was a 100% healthy horse. We were expecting him to do something like that. When he got hurt in the Breeders’ Cup it was the most gut wrenching thing of my life because I was literally getting on a plane, I was gearing up, I was so excited, I couldn’t sleep that night, my adrenaline was rushing, but then, you know, you get that kick in the stomach, which it really, really hurt for a long time and we didn’t get over it. Watching the Breeders’ Cup was not an easy race to watch even though we had Mr. Z in it, because I just know how good and talented American Pharaoh was. When he came back it wasn’t a sigh of relief, it was more of just happiness to see him back, proud of him; just all those emotions at once.
Danny Brewer: So experienced the lowest of the lows and then the Rebel was the highest of the highs. Was the Rebel Stakes, because obviously that’s his only start at three, were you expecting something like that out of him, because I mean it was just completely dominant?
Justin Zayat: Yes, we were definitely expecting something like that out of him. I mean if you actually look at the race, he works quicker than the race actually ran. So it was kind of an easy race for him, which is nice, because, you know, I really wasn’t looking for a very demanding, demanding effort off of such a long layoff, especially in the slop that day, who knows how safe the track was. So it seems like that was a nice sigh of relief to get him back, but I was also proud. When we saw how happy he was when he came out and he came out of it in unbelievable shape, so it was as good as it gets.
Danny Brewer: Talk—for—this last one for me—Bob Baffert, what he has meant for this horse and for you folks?
Justin Zayat: Bob Baffert what he’s meant for the horse and our folks? Us and Bob, the first trainer I’ve learned from (inaudible). You know, he’s been very special to me from the first horse that we’ve had with him, A Z Warrior, until now. You know, we’ve had a great relationship with him. I think we’ve won 11 Grade 1s with him, so just the combination just works. Our families blend together and I have an unbelievable respect for him. You know, as soon as I saw this horse work on the farm as a two-year-old I sent him a video and he said to me, Justin, remember the Breeders’ Cup’s in California this year. So he wanted our horse. He saw how good he was from day one and just that was what led me to give Bob that horse. But what we’ve had with him, our success we’ve had with him, and he’s the Derby coach. If you want to give a horse time to prepare for the Derby, you’re going to give him to Bob Baffert.
Jim Mulvihill: All right, Justin, just a couple follow-ups. We mentioned earlier the three runners-up finishes in the Kentucky Derby, and the near misses that you guys have had. Just talk about being in this position and the chance to amend for that, especially with American Pharoah’s daddy, Pioneerof The Nile?
Justin Zayat: When we first had Pioneerof The Nile in the Derby it was such a surreal experience. It was second Derby but it was my first time I really, really felt I had a chance. We had a horse who had basically swept the whole West Coast. If that happened nowadays he’d be the biggest buzz horse out there. But when he first ran—when he ran second that year, I was so proud of him but at the same time it was devastating. I felt like, wow, this was my chance to win the Derby. This will never, ever, ever happen again. This was it. Then all of a sudden we come back and we have Nehro, and Nehro runs second, and I’m like, oh my God, I thought I had it this time. For the first time Animal Kingdom, first time first, and it’s just like how do you get (inaudible) like that I was really thinking. Then with Bodemeister, and I’m thinking—and finally coming down the stretch he opens up five or six, I’m like finally the time has come, it’s finally here, and then all of a sudden he’s getting beat right before the wire by I’ll Have Another. So all our Derby experiences have been surreal, you know, but I can say I’ve had the feeling of winning the Kentucky Derby for like half a second, and then it got taken away right away. So, you know, to be in this position and to be so blessed, I have a horse like American Pharaoh and El Kabeir and to be able to be in the position going into the Derby, you know, is a dream come true. I’m just dying to win those roses. I really, really hope this could be our year. We’re trying our best, trying to make the best decisions possible, and we’re really, really dying to win this race.
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent. Well, Justin, maybe this one is the year the way it’s looking so far. We appreciate your time today and good luck on Saturday as well as on the first Saturday in May hopefully.
Justin Zayat: Thank you very much for having me.
Jim Mulvihill: Absolutely. That’s Justin Zayat. They’ll have Mr. Z and American Pharaoh in the Arkansas Derby on Saturday.
Now we can talk about American Pharoah alone just for an hour, but we’ve got four great guests today so we’ve got to keep whipping on. That brings us to the next guest, Jeremiah Englehart. Jeremiah came to national prominence when he trained Ria Antonia to win the 2013 Breeders’ Cup Juvenile Fillies. He took out his trainer’s license in 2003, and was considered mostly a Finger Lakes guy at that point until trying the NYRA circuit a few years ago. He’s won more than 100 races each of the last three years, and Saturday he takes a swing at the Arkansas Derby with Maryland-bred Bridget’s Big Luvy, who went gate to wire in the Private Terms at Laurel last out on March 21. Jeremiah, are you with us?
Jim Mulvihill: Are you in Hot Springs right now?
Jeremiah Englehart: Yes. Yes, I arrived here late Saturday night; flew in from Florida Saturday night.
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent. Well, that’s perfect, because I wanted to ask about Bridget’s work on Sunday. Let’s see, a half in 47 and 2. Did you get the impression from that that he likes the track there at Oaklawn, and just tell us about that move?
Jeremiah Englehart: Yes, so far everything seems well as far as that goes. You know, he had galloped over the track for a couple days and then he breezed on Sunday, and it was a nice move. He—it looked like to me watching it was 49, 50, and it was one of those where you looked down at your watch and it’s 47 and 2, and gallops out (inaudible) and you’re very happy with that.
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent. Well, we were just talking to Justin Zayat and you might be facing the best three-year-old in the country on Saturday, and there are other serious contenders for the Derby in this race as well. Just tell us how your horse fits into this race and how you would hope to see it play out?
Jeremiah Englehart: Well, I’ve been a big fan of American Pharoah for a long time, so I understand how nice of a colt he is, and I’m kind of honored to be able to run against him this weekend. But, you know, with my horse, you know, we’re the newcomer in the race. I was expecting him to run well in the Private Terms. He did, and I’m expecting him to run his race this time. Is it going to be good enough to win? I’m not sure. I think he’s going to run his race, and I figure he’ll tell me kind of where he’s at. As far as his style, I mean like I said, I’m going to let him do his thing. Angel
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent. Then your owner, Tom O’Grady, he put up $6,000 to nominate to the Triple Crown after the Private Terms, so just it’s safe to assume I guess that you guys are hoping to have a Derby, or if not able to make it into the Derby, a Preakness horse then?
Jeremiah Englehart: Yes, I knew at about the eighth pole of the Private Terms that we were going to be going for the Derby or looking for points somewhere. So when I talked to him after the race, it wasn’t a surprise. Tom’s a Louisville guy. He lives there with his family, and he’s a big Kentucky Derby fan. I mean he’s a big Louisville anything fan, and in fact, he took me to the Syracuse game when they played Michigan State last weekend, so he follows them wherever they go. He has a big party the Thursday evening before th