NTRA Communications National Media Teleconference: Past Winners of the Triple Crown teleconference, May 26, 2015
Guests:
Penny Chenery – owner of Secretariat (‘73)
Ron Turcotte – jockey of Secretariat (’73)
Dr. Jim Hill – co-owner of Seattle Slew (’77)
Billy Turner – trainer of Seattle Slew (’77)
Jean Cruguet – jockey Seattle Slew (’77)
Patrice Wolfson – co-owner of Affirmed (’78)
Steve Cauthen – jockey of Affirmed (’78)
Jim Mulvihill: Thank you to all our friends in the media for joining us today. This is the first of two calls this week. Thursday at 1 p.m. Eastern Time we’ll have our Belmont Stakes Preview with Bob Baffert, Dallas Stewart, and Kiaran McLaughlin, so I encourage you all to put that on your calendars and join us again on Thursday at 1 p.m. for the Belmont Stakes Preview.
We’re only 11 days away from the Belmont and American Pharoah’s historic attempt at a Triple Crown. By now you probably all know the most pertinent numbers. There have been 11 Triple Crown winners dating back to Sir Barton in 1919. The most recent of those was Affirmed in 1978. Since then, 13 horses have swept both the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness Stakes only to be denied in or not make it to the 1.5 mile Belmont, known as the Test of the Champion. The 1970s were blessed with three Triple Crown winners, starting with the great Secretariat, who ended a 25 year drought in 1973. Then in 1977, Seattle Slew remained undefeated and virtually unchallenged through his first nine starts while taking all three Classics. In 1978, Affirmed bested his great rival Alydar in the Triple Crown races, including at Belmont where those two were never more than a half-length apart in the final seven eighths and charged down the stretch virtually in tandem.
So who would’ve guessed then that it would go this long? Thirty seven years now without another Triple Crown. None of the Triple Crown winners are with us anymore. Seattle Slew was the most recently departed in 2002. But their legends only continue to grow and their feats seem more unbelievable with each passing year and so many failed attempts at matching them.
Today, we’re very fortunate to be joined by some of the connections from all three of those Triple Crown heroes of the 1970s. Representing Secretariat, we’re delighted to have owner and first lady of thoroughbred racing Penny Chenery, as well as jockey Ron Turcotte, the winner of two Kentucky Derbys and five of six Triple Crown events between Riva Ridge in ’72 and Secretariat in ’73. Of course, we’re very happy to have Ron with us as he’s been on everyone’s minds this spring since a car accident in March, and we’re very eager to get an update on Ron’s progress.
On behalf of Seattle Slew we’re joined by co-owner Dr. Jim Hill, a partner in Tayhill Stable, as well as trainer Billy Turner and jockey Jean Cruguet.
From team Affirmed we welcome Patrice Wolfson, who co-owned the colt with her late husband Louis, racing as Harbor View Farm; and Jockey Steve Cauthen, the youngest rider ever to win the Triple Crown when he was just 18 years old.
So we’ve got a lot of ground to cover today. Let me just quickly explain to everybody how we’re going to do this. All of the guests will be on for the entirety of the call. I’m going to jump around a bit; ask a few questions to make sure we hear from everybody in the beginning. I’ll ask a few of the most obvious and pertinent questions, but then we’ll leave the second half of the call for the media. When that time comes, if you do have a question, just be sure to announce who specifically you’re addressing.
But first, I’m going to start with our owners, and we’ll bring in Ms. Chenery. We’d love to give her the first word. Ms. Chenery, thanks for joining us today. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you.
Penny Chenery: Well, thank you.
Jim Mulvihill: We’ve been in this position many times before; talked to you one year ago today for the same reason. So maybe the most pressing question is American Pharoah different from some of the others that we’ve talked to you about over the past several years, and do you believe that American Pharoah can win a Triple Crown in a week and a half?
Penny Chenery: That’s a tough question. You know, I live in Colorado and I’ve not seen—well I did go to the Derby, but I’m not around these horses, so I’m dependent on the media. American Pharoah seems to have a very fluid, easy stride, and doesn’t seem to have any weakness to overcome, so it’s a question of whether he can deal with the shortened rotation of these races. We don’t train horses to do that these days. It’s unusual, and we’ll just see if he can master his mind around it and do it again.
Jim Mulvihill: We will indeed. Now, I want to ask you about the interest in the Triple Crown, because, you know, when we get to this time of the year the media interest is massive; the TV ratings are massive. What do you think it is about the pursuit of a Triple Crown that seems to resonate with people, even those in the public who don’t normally follow horse racing?
Penny Chenery: I guess the idea of something that has been out of reach. People like records and outstanding feats, and it just catches their eye that it’s been, what, 37 years since this has been accomplished, and they think, wow, that’s interesting. Why is that? If we had a Triple Crown winner every other year, they wouldn’t look up.
Jim Mulvihill: Very true, very true. Well, thank you for that, Ms. Chenery. We’re going to bounce around a little bit, but I’m sure we’ll be coming back to you shortly.
Now I want to check in with Patrice Wolfson. For those that don’t know, Patrice is from a leading family of the American turf. Her father was Hall of Fame Trainer Hirsch Jacobs, who won so many of the most important stakes of the mid-Twentieth Century. Affirmed was not only owned by Patrice and her husband Louis, but they also bred Affirmed as well.
So Mrs. Wolfson, thank you for being on our call.
Patrice Wolfson: I’m so pleased to be here. Thank you.
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent. Well, it’s our pleasure, of course, and I’d like to start with the same initial question that we just started with Ms. Chenery. What are your impressions of American Pharoah, and do you believe this is a horse that can get it done after 37 years?
Patrice Wolfson: I think the time has possibly come. Yes, I do. He’s just beautiful and he just does everything that they’ve asked him to do.
Jim Mulvihill: And do you…?
Patrice Wolfson: It is a difficult task as we all know, right?
Jim Mulvihill: Indeed, it is. Do you feel like—do you feel like the time has come in the sense that not necessarily specific to this horse, but in terms of the fact that this drought has just gone on long enough? Is it time for somebody new to finally win the Triple Crown already?
Patrice Wolfson: Well, I think being Two-Year-Old Champion, and the last four, I believe, horses that won the Triple Crown were all Two-Year-Old Champions, which is something in his race record, I just think the time has come. Of course, it’s going to be interesting to see how he takes to the big Belmont oval, and it’s going to be a challenge of course.
Jim Mulvihill: It will indeed, and I agree with you as far as being a Two-Year-Old Champion. I think we all like it when it’s a horse that has that back class and has shown the ability throughout his career.
Now I’d like to stick with the owners here and check in with Dr. Jim Hill. Dr. Hill, what are your thoughts on having gone through this so many times? Do you think it’s getting to a point where we need somebody to win this already, or is it better if the drought continues for the excitement?
Dr. Jim Hill: No, actually I think it would be great if we had another Triple Crown winner. It would be terrific for racing. It would stimulate a lot more interest. Certainly this colt has done everything they’ve asked of him. You know, it’s an amazing trip that he’s had. But I do think he’ll be tested. It’s not a gimme. To me, he’s going to get a—I should think that he will get a good fair pace in front, and he should be pressed because I think he likes to be near or on the lead, and if he’s good enough, it’ll be terrific for racing.
Jim Mulvihill: When you watch these Triple Crown races every year, is it natural for you to want to compare these present day horses to both your horse and the other Triple Crown winners of the ’70s, and if so, what kind of similarities do you see? What are these characteristics that you see in these great horses today relative to the Triple Crown winners of the ’70s?
Dr. Jim Hill: You know, I think it’s very difficult to compare horses of different eras, because the tracks are different, the training methods have changed somewhat, the breeding has changed. We’ve emphasized horses that tend to be sprinters, so sometimes when you’re running at a mile and a half you’re really running horses that are designed to run a mile, and so I just think it’s very difficult to compare the top horses from one age to another.
Jim Mulvihill: Very true. Well, we will find out soon if American Pharoah wants to go that mile and a half.
Now, let’s check in with Seattle Slew’s trainer, Billy Turner. Billy, thanks for joining us this morning.
Billy Turner: Thank you.
Jim Mulvihill: Now you’re the lone living Triple Crown winning trainer, and you managed Slew through not only three races in five weeks, but when you go back to his final prep in the Wood Memorial, that was four races in seven weeks. Now with American Pharoah, when you go back to the Arkansas Derby, this is going to be his fourth race in eight weeks. The spacing is not what anybody would consider ideal for horses of the 21st Century. What kind of concerns are there that the schedule will catch up to him next Saturday, and what do you think about that spacing for a potential Triple Crown winner?
Billy Turner: Well, I think it’s perfect for him myself. I just think that the—the way he ran in the Preakness and he did it with such ease and he was striding so easily the last part of it that the race—that race didn’t seem to take anything out of him, and I just think he’d be coming up to this race perfectly.
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent. Can you tell us, for the trainer, what are these weeks between the Preakness and Belmont like? You’ve got the pressure with the media, you’ve got the scrutiny with everybody watching your horse in the mornings. What’s it like these three weeks between these races?
Billy Turner: Well, it’s easy if your horse is doing well and you’re very confident in his condition and he doesn’t have any little things that are bothering him. But if he has little things that you’re concerned about, that makes the pressure intense. You want to see your horse put on his best performance, and any little thing that pops up is—you take very seriously.
Jim Mulvihill: Very good. I want to just ask you about the mile and a half. I mean you’re–you’ve been based in New York for a long time; you’ve seen so many Belmonts. Whether it’s a Triple Crown or not, just talk about going a mile and a half at Belmont, what kind of horse it takes to win this race, and how difficult that is especially after two previously grueling Triple Crown races?
Billy Turner: Well, it’s—Belmont Park is unique in that, well, it’s the biggest track we run on, but it becomes a rider’s race. Riders that are not used to riding on that oval tend to get a little bit anxious a little bit too soon, and they look like winners inside the eight pole but they’re not there at the wire. It’s a—it’s been proven time and time again, and Woody Stephens always said it well, I mean he won five of them in a row—or not in a row, but he won five Belmonts, and he did it with horses that they trained on the track every day, and they just—they were used to going the mile and—around that big oval there, and it does give you an edge if you’ve trained over it.
Jim Mulvihill: Very interesting considering that American Pharoah will not have a work over the track, wouldn’t you say?
Billy Turner: That was—it really, really surprised me, because that’s not—in the past, that hasn’t been Bob Baffert’s style, and the fact that he went from Pimlico back to Churchill and then he’s coming up here and whatever. I think Union Rags, wasn’t he about the first horse that didn’t train here to win the Belmont in quite awhile?
Jim Mulvihill: It seems that everybody wants to get a work over that track especially as different as it is from some of the others.
Billy Turner: Well, not only the work over the track, just galloping around a big oval, and it’s different. When you’re used to going around mile ovals, it makes a big, big difference, and thinking, and of the—for the horse and the rider I think it makes a big, big difference.
Jim Mulvihill: Sure, sure. All right, well very interesting stuff. Billy, hang on the line, we’re going to check in with our jockeys now: Ron Turcotte, Jean Cruguet, and Steve Cauthen. Gentlemen, thank you all for joining us here.
Jean Cruguet: Thank you.
Steve Cauthen: Good to be here.
Jim Mulvihill: Now, I’m going to assume that you’ve all been watching the Triple Crown races this year, so I’d just like to go down the row and ask you all to give your impressions of American Pharoah. But first, Ron, I want to check in with you, and before we get to that question, could you just tell us how you’re doing and how your spring has been? We’re all just interested in knowing how you’re doing these days.
Ron Turcotte: Well, I had a bad little spill last—this past spring or this past March, and I’ve been inside for—since then. I’ve been in hospital and then out and I’m still in casts right now. So I’m coming along. The cast is supposed to come off tomorrow, so, but I’m feeling fine.
Jim Mulvihill: Well, we’re very happy to hear that, and we appreciate you joining us today to relive some great memories. Now, did you get a chance to watch the Kentucky Derby, Ron, and the Preakness as well?
Ron Turcotte: Yes.
Jim Mulvihill: All right. Tell us what you thought?
Ron Turcotte: Well, he didn’t really impress me in the Kentucky Derby. I thought he was all out or—anyways, the jockey had to get after him pretty good, whether he was waiting on horses or whatever. But the Preakness I think the rain came just at the right time. He’s the kind of horse that (inaudible) in the mud while the other horses hold back. It reminds me of the Riva Ridge Preakness where my horse didn’t like the mud at all. He could stand up in the mud. The other horses were, you know, pretty well in the same boat, but Bee Bee Bee loved mud, because I had beat Bee Bee every time I had met him before. Anyhow, so I—it was—his race looked very, very impressive, and it if turns out muddy in the Belmont, the way he runs in the mud, he could probably (inaudible) to the Belmont.
Jim Mulvihill: Indeed, indeed. Jean Cruguet, how about you? Impressions of American Pharoah?
Jean Cruguet: Yes, what I’m seeing—seen with him (inaudible) and I’ve seen, you know, the Derby was—before the Derby after the horse (inaudible) the Triple Crown for sure, before (inaudible) I’m not so sure the Derby was not impressive at all. Then (inaudible) the Preakness he went in the (inaudible) and the (inaudible) he went (inaudible) he can move into the mud. But he’s a good horse for sure. I think he can win, but he’s going to have to, you know, he’s going to be challenged. It’s going to be, you know, it’s not going to be an easy race.
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent. Steve Cauthen, now let’s bring you and get some thoughts on American Pharoah.
Steve Cauthen: Yes, well like everyone said, you know, he was so impressive in the Arkansas Derby, and really just the way Bob Baffert was speaking about him before the Derby, I mean he wasn’t so much saying it to the press, but you could just kind of feel the undertone, you know, he really felt American Pharoah was quite a bit better than Dortmund. You know, I mean when he got the outside draw, you know, I mean he obviously—they were very careful with him. He went wide, but he did, you know, he really did have to pick him up and get after him in the Derby. The time was, you know, okay; nothing that fantastic, and, of course, he went to the Preakness, as they say, as they said, you know, he got the off track, which he obviously handled, and probably his main two competitors didn’t. But and the only thing that really kind of was concerning to me was the final three sixteenths of a mile were quite slow, but watching the race you wouldn’t know that because he just ran away from the rest of the horses in the field. But the fact is, you know, he beat a horse that, you know, the horse that was second had just broken his maiden.
Having said all that, you know, he does appear to be just a really top class horse. He’s an excellent mover, you know, beautiful confirmation, and he obviously has always been that. He was the Two-Year-Old Champion. So, you know, I think he’s going to the Belmont with a team that’s been there before; it’s nothing new for them. I think Bob’s kind of backed off, you know, taking it easy and kind of training him lightly trying to keep his energy up, you know, so he’s all ready for the Belmont, and we’ll find out if he’s the real deal, you know, if he can do the mile and a half I guess is really the question. He’s obviously the real deal. He’s the best three-year-old at this point, but the thing—the reason they call this the Test of Champions, you know, it’s a mile and a half and it’s, you know, it’s always a test, and you know, there’s some nice horses that will be testing him.
Jim Mulvihill: Absolutely. Well, all right, you guys have me very excited about this race now. Steve, hang on, I’ve got one more question for the jockeys, and maybe I’ll let you take it first and then we’ll go back to the other two. But, you know, you guys had very full careers in the sense that you won Grade 1 and Group 1 events beyond the Triple Crown; obviously several of them, but the Triple Crown Winner is a title that kind of follows you everywhere now three, four decades later. Can you just tell me what being a Triple Crown winner meant to you at the time, and now looking back what it means to your career looking back now? Steve, you can (inaudible).
Steve Cauthen: Yes, for me it was—obviously it happened to me, you know, at a young age, but everybody always asks me, you know, did you realize how important or how big a deal it was? I always say, yes, you know, I realized a) how difficult it was, and what a big deal it was. I obviously had no idea it would be 37 years before, you know, or at least, you know, until another horse maybe did it. But I’ve always felt that, you know, it would happen again, and just you need the right horse and you need everything to go your way. I mean you just can’t have things go wrong in training and the build-up to it, and obviously because it happens over a five week period, you know, you have to adjust to that, and I think the trainers have to train a little bit different, although, you know, I mean Laz, you know, he did very little fast work with Affirmed in between the Preakness and the Belmont, and I don’t think breezed him, he just gave him a lot of long slow gallops. But I remember Billy Turner saying that he had to do a lot with, you know, do more with Slew because he just—that horse wanted to—he needed some work. He was—otherwise he was going, you know, jump out of his skin. So you have to train each horse individually, and, you know, it’s always interesting to see how horses come up to the race. But as I said, you know, Bob Baffert’s been there before, so it—I think he knows, you know, I think he’s got it laid out and he’s got a game plan, and obviously going back to Churchill is a little different than I think he’s done in the past, and maybe that’s it, you know, the fact that he hasn’t won it and decided to try something different.
Jim Mulvihill: Yes, and he seems very relaxed out there, and it seems to be a good place for the horse being a little bit away from the madness of New York for a little while.
Jean Cruguet, tell us what it means—what it meant to you to be a Triple Crown winner and what it means to you still today?
Jean Cruguet: Well, today it’s a big deal but during ’70 when you win, you know, it was almost (inaudible) it was not such a big deal, and we—and then before you knew it would take so long; 37 years. So now everything is, you know, I would say it’s very hard to do, but it should be (inaudible) in between. That’s, you know, (inaudible) horses that win, again, as they should. But I, you know, it’s still it’s not easy to do, so it’s a big deal of course.
Jim Mulvihill: Absolutely. Ron Turcotte, What did it mean to you to be a Triple Crown winner? I mean you got to ride one of the greats of all time, but also just the title of Triple Crown Winner, how did it separate you as a jockey and how does it continue to separate you from some of your peers today?
Ron Turcotte: Well, I had a pretty good career before then. I had won the Belmont the year before; I had won the Derby. But I think it was the icing on the cake. Riding Secretariat, I think the greatest horse that ever lived, he—but for him he needed a lot of work, and that’s what we (inaudible) all the way. We worked him hard for the Derby, we worked him hard for the Preakness, and we worked him hard for—double hard for the Belmont. I mean he worked a mile in 1:34, and pulled up to a mile and a quarter in 1:59 (phon) a couple weeks before, and so he was a different kind of horse.
Now when you look back at the—in 1972 when I rode Riva Ridge, so you had to be a good judge of pace when you’re riding the mile and a half. But regardless, Ridge, you’re right, and are you going to be a good jockey and have a good judge of pace. Riva Ridge was a different horse, a different kind of horse, where he didn’t need as much work, and—but we’d still done a fair amount of work, but it seemed (phon) that he just could not run in the mud because it would’ve been two Triple Crowns in a row because in the Belmont he just galloped the Belmont and won by seven lengths. It was just the matter of going a mile and a half, like I had intended to run half a mile in 48, two quarters of a mile in 1:12, (inaudible) and that’s what we had trained him for, and it just turned out that we didn’t get chased to run any faster, and I had plenty of horse when I turned for home.
Jim Mulvihill: I would say so.
Ron Turcotte: With Secretariat it was a different story. I had plenty of horse when I left the gate, so plenty of gas in the tank right then. Turning for home I still had plenty of gas in the tank, and—but then I can’t compare him to any other horse.
Jim Mulvihill: Sure, sure. All right, well, I appreciate everybody’s comments to this point. We’re joined by several of the connections of the three Triple Crown winners of the 1970s. We’ve got two of the leading ladies of the American turf in Penny Chenery and Patrice Wolfson, and we’re also joined by Jim Hill, co-owner of Seattle Slew, Billy Turner, the trainer of Seattle Slew, and the three Triple Crown winning jockeys of the ’70s, Ron Turcotte, Jean Cruguet, and Steve Cauthen. I’m going to turn it over to Michelle to check with the media and see what questions they have for our distinguished guests here.
Operator: Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing the star key, followed by the digit one on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speakerphone, please make sure your mute function is turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment. If you have signaled for a question prior to hearing these instructions on today’s call, please repeat the process now by pressing star, one again to ensure our equipment has captured your signal. We’ll pause for just a moment to allow everyone the opportunity to signal for questions.
We’ll now take our first question from Danny Brewer of Rutherford Reader. Please go ahead.
Danny Brewer: Yes, my question is for Ron Turcotte. Ron, some things that you do in life just kind of stick with you and it seems like yesterday even though it may be 42 years ago. When you were going up the back stretch with Secretariat and Sham is right there, did you like kind of nudge him and hit the clutch and down shift, or was that all him? What perpetuated him just pulling away and running like a train off the track? What happened there?
Ron Turcotte: Well, when you drive a car, I mean you’re controlling the car. Anybody driving a car whether you’re just (inaudible) or flying the plane, you’re going to be flying (inaudible) under your—unless you can put it on cruise. Well, Secretariat cruised pretty good, but I was still controlling him. I always rode my horse according to the way he was going, the way he was really under me and if he was handling himself very good, and Secretariat was in a league of his own.
Danny Brewer: Does it seem like just yesterday for you? I mean is it still real vivid in your memory as far as what happened on that day at Belmont?
Ron Turcotte: Oh, yes, I still get goose pimples when I see the race, I mean on the tape or on films that we had of him.
Danny Brewer: As far as do you think you were more passenger or pilot that day on him?
Ron Turcotte: