Click below to listen to the Teleconference and scroll down to view the transcript (to be posted Wednesday).
C O N F E R E N C E C A L L P A R T I C I P A N T S
Trainer Dale Romans (J Boys Echo, Gotham Stakes)
Trainer Joe Sharp (Girvin, Louisiana Derby)
Trainer John Shirreffs (Gormley, Santa Anita Derby)
Jim Mulvihill:
Welcome, everyone, to our Kentucky Derby preview. This is annually one of our more popular calls so we’re going to keep introductions short today and leave as much time as possible for everyone’s questions. But, as a quick reminder, this is our fourth call over the past month and, just so everyone knows, transcripts and audio files of all of those calls are at www.NTRA.com. This is important because plenty of what was discussed on those calls remains relevant, and if you need info on any of the derby horses you should feel free to go back and reference those. We’ve had the trainers of basically the entire field represented in these four calls this month.
So, later on, we’re going to get to talk to Joe Sharp, trainer of the Louisiana Derby winner, and the leading points getter, Girvin. And then John Shirreffs, the winner of the Santa Anita Derby winner, Gormley.
But first we’re delighted to welcome in a frequent quest on these teleconferences, and that is Dale Romans, trainer of the Gotham Stakes winner, J Boys Echo. He was fourth last time out in the Bluegrass despite a troubled start, and we’re going to learn more about his preparations for the derby right now. Dale, it’s Jim Mulvihill, thanks for joining us.
Dale Romans: Well, thanks for having me. It always means something’s good going on if you want to talk.
Jim Mulvihill:
Absolutely, and we’re always happy to. We’re get to the horse in a second, but first I’m sure everyone wants to hear about your rider situation, Robby Albarado, of course, side-lined a couple of days ago. There’s some great jocks out there without commitments. Can you just give us an update on your thoughts on a rider?
Dale Romans: Well, we’ve decided not to rush into anything of course. You know, it’s like you said, there’s a lot of good riders out there and really kind of waiting to hear from Robby, what his, get his input, because he’s ridden him so many times, on what kind of rider he thinks would suit him the best. And I won’t put him on the spot because I know all the riders here are friends of his, and talk a little more to Jason Luch. And I’d say by the end of the day tomorrow we’ll have something figured out.
Jim Mulvihill:
That’s interesting, you know, about a particular rider would fit the horse. What is it about his style or a jockey’s particular strength that you think would fit J Boys Echo?
Dale Romans: Well, I’d like to see someone – you know, with all the ones that are available there are some great jockeys there, either Hall of Famers or future Hall of Famers so they’re going to have the characteristics of performing. But I want somebody who can finish strong and, you know, somebody that’s – that, and see what Robby thinks, what the thinks is the best style of jockey to have. I think that he’s more of a finesse jockey, though I think we would like to have a good, strong finisher.
Jim Mulvihill:
Make sense, very good. Well, J Boys Echo worked on Sunday. You called it a solid move: 5/8th and 01:02 on one. Just tell us more about your impressions of that move, and Tammy’s as well, I guess.
Dale Romans:
Well, we’d both see that he did it, depending on whatever one we wanted to do. He’s going to – if you look at the four-week span he’s going to have two races in three works, so it’s not like he has to go real fast and winning things, he’s pointing fifth. And we’re just trying to keep him sharp. And, you know, if he went by himself, went around there in 01:02 – that’s about all he ever does in the mornings, he’s not a big workhorse unless he has company. And she said he felt good, he came back to the barn he was already cooled down, I mean, he couldn’t blow out a match.
Danny Brewer:
Well, we’re just trying to find us a derby horse, here. I think you’ve already got you one. I’m trying to see who my derby horse is going to be. So when we talk about J Boys Echo talk about the involvement of Tammy and how important she’s been with his development.
Dale Romans:
She’s been a performing really good horse I’ve had of course. You know, she’s – we’ve been together since the beginning of my career. So every big horse I’ve had, it’s important to have someone like her on her back because she gives me good feedback. And J Boy is obviously more of a special project, she doesn’t only work him, she gallops him every day and has ever since he came in. And he was not the most mature horse when we got him. You know, he was – he would do a lot of things wrong, had a lot of natural talent. And she kind of got him focussed and doing things the right way. Done a really good job with this horse.
Danny Brewer:
When you look back at the Bluegrass Stakes, which was last race, I know that you didn’t win, but did you get something out of that race do you feel like for this horse?
Dale Romans:
I was just trying to run a race, I know he could, that’s all. He got to race, so if you’ve got a good race in, which we needed, and he was finishing up, he ran hard. They went so slow early he came so fast, it was going to be hard to make up any ground on that racetrack.
Danny Brewer:
When you look at a few of the derby contenders, just talk about some of your past horses that I’m sure Tammy was involved with that Shack preferred. He’s got some horses that are running now as three year olds, meantime it was one that looked good, too keen on the other hand. Does that make you feel good to know that your horse, Shack, is doing his job in the stud bar now, Dale?
Dale Romans:
You like to watch your past horses and see how their offspring do, and you spend a good watch first through and Shackleford and Palefrado[?] and Kids Joy, all of them have their baby spirits. It’s fun to produce good sire-ins and get to watch their foals because they’re like grand-kids to you.
Ron Flatter:
Hi, Dale. The – when you go – I want to go back to the Bluegrass again also. Do you think – how much was the start a problem for J Boys Echo and how much do you think that took him out of the race?
Dale Romans:
Well, I think it was a pretty big problem because we were hoping that to get a little bit closer in the race, because the track is planned for speed and it didn’t look like there was a lot of speed in the race – and that’s kind of the way it’s set up and materialised. And then he got bumped. If he breaks clean and he’s up a little closer, and all the other stuff in the race, getting bumped around and stepped on doesn’t happen. And he came back, his eye was swollen up the next day – he got hit in the eye with something. It just was a – the whole race went wrong. And everything starts with the breaks.
Ron Flatter:
Well, good to that end, but how much did the eye problem affect him as the race went on? And how much – what kind of a – how bad was that?
Dale Romans:
You never know. It wasn’t that bad, it went down the next day but, you know, he looked like he went a few rounds with Mike Tyson the next morning. the day right after the race there was not a problem. But he obviously got hit in the eye with – the eye was hit with something. It wasn’t actually the eyeball that was affected, it was just he got hit in the face with something and, you know, that had to affect him.
Ron Flatter:
For a lot of the distance?
Dale Romans:
I think so, I think so. I think just draw right through it and see if we get an effort like we did in the Gotham for this race.
Art Wilson:
Dale, the last three years we’ve had kind of a consensus heading into the derby. And this year has been kind of people are more all over the map with, you know, with their picks and their choices whether it be because of upsets or injuries or what have you. What’s your thought on the whole thing so far going into the derby? What have you looked at and what have you seen?
Dale Romans:
I think it’s as wide open as we’ve seen in a long time. I think you’re going to have some big odds on whoever the favourite is – whoever it ends up being. I think that you’ve got, McCraken, I think. I think you’ve got Always Dreaming. Of course, Classic Empire. Those are going to take a while to play. And everybody else, I mean, it could be any horse this race. And you could figure out in that form some place that that win – the win came from. I don’t think this really means it’s a bad group of horses – I think it’s an even group of horses.
Art Wilson:
Right, right. And your horse, J Boys Echo, what is it about him that makes you think that he could win the derby?
Dale Romans:
The fact that I think a mile and a quarter will help him. And he’s been – he’s had some rough trips and races and overcome. And, you know, if he gets a fast pace he’ll be running at the end, and that’s what you want to see in the Kentucky Derby.
Jenny Rees:
Hey, Dale, you’re a confident guy by nature. When you win the race, like you did the Gotham, obviously you came into the Bluegrass extremely confident. When you, even with excuses and stuff, when you have a race that you’re putting a line through, as you said, with the Bluegrasss can you have the same sort of confidence going into the next one or is it the derby you can’t have complete confidence in any horse?
Dale Romans:
Well, this will be my eighth try at the derby, and so I can’t have complete confidence. This is the best of the best, and to win it will be such an overwhelming thing, it’s hard to go into it with a lot of confidence. But I was a little bit discouraged after the Bluegrass for the first 48 hours. I watched the replay a few times, I see where we got in all the trouble. I know my horse is training good, he’s very healthy and I’m confident that he’s going to run well.
Jenny Rees:
Have you scoped out, you know, the horses in like as far as who’s got speed? I mean, do you think – there hasn’t seemed to be as much as a sort of brilliant speed that we saw pre-point system in these derbies to spread out the field. But when you look around –
Dale Romans:
Do you mean the – do you mean –
Jenny Rees:
– there’s plenty of speed [inaudible].
Dale Romans:
There hasn’t – if there’s not the chief speed you can’t keep going.
Jenny Rees:
Exactly, but it spreads the field.
Dale Romans:
Right. It hasn’t happened in the point system, I don’t know if it’s because of the point system, if there’s some – you know, like the issue, go back and look at speed horses were eliminated but with the new point system. But I think there’s some fast horses in this race.
Jenny Rees:
Well, surely there’s one.
Dale Romans:
Yeah. I mean –
Jenny Rees:
Yeah.
Dale Romans:
– he wouldn’t have made this, the race. But there seems to be some fast horses in here to me.
Jenny Rees:
So you think – I mean, because, you know, he had a bad trip in a seven horse field with, you know, no pace. But you think that he could feel slightly more of being a favourite if you get the pace.
Dale Romans:
Right. I’ve had as many bad trips in short fields with, and face not materialising in short fields as I have in big fields for some reason, it seems like.
Jenny Rees:
Yeah. And I was hoping to ask you, you know, he’s a wonderful horse but when he finished fourth in his last race, he’s probably got more ink than any horse coming off of fourth place finish into the derby. You’ve been really big on social media, and going even before the Bluegrasss. Can you sort of talk about the different things you’re involved in and why that is important to you to do it or [inaudible].
Dale Romans:
I love horse racing, and I think a lot of people out there do, and it’s – there’s so much more to it than the actual race. And I think with some of the social media we’re trying to do, and you’re helping us with in the Kentucky Derby, or Kentucky HPA is doing and Kentucky Derby Kids is doing, is it pulls the curtains back and lets people see what goes on, how great the game is and how fun it is to be on the back side and what goes on in the mornings and what goes into getting the horse over there for two minutes. And this game, in my opinion, is tailor-made for the internet. It’s a very picturesque game and there’s a lot of stories and a lot to be told besides just running around a track for two minutes.
Jenny Rees:
Yeah, well [inaudible]
Dale Romans:
So hopefully [inaudible] enjoying it, okay.
Jenny Rees:
I was going to say that with the horses do you have any second thoughts about maybe I really don’t need this camera in my face?
Dale Romans:
No, it’s fine. We talked the other day about you’ve got to stand there for the bad, if you’re going to stand there and take credit, or good when you say you’re good. And it’s all part of the game. And I just, the game as a whole, I like to see it more exposed. And I think people are liking what they’re seeing. You might draw some more fans into some of the races betting horses.
Jim Mulvihill:
Alright, Dale, well just to wrap it up, I guess, and maybe tie some of this together, looking at the big picture for J Boys Echo, for some of the reasons that you mentioned he’s going to be a hard one for handicappers to get a handle on: he’s not a flashy horse in the morning, his last race might be a total toss‑out. So if he can run say his Gotham again is that enough to win the Kentucky Derby? Where does he – how do you size this up? Where does he really fit in in all this?
Dale Romans:I think he’s horse that you definitely don’t want to leave out of your exotic wages, and when you have one of those kinds of things go right they can get all the money. And he’s a horse that’s steadily improving. He’s never run a bad race, and he just keeps getting a little bit better and better. And he shows he’s fast enough in the Gotham, I mean, he ran one of the biggest buyer, if not the biggest buyer, of the field. And if we get back to that he’ll be right there.
Jim Mulvihill:
Very good, that’s the info we like to hear. Dale Romans, thanks for spending some time with us. And good luck with the rest of your derby preparations.
Dale Romans:
No problem, thanks.
Jim Mulvihill:
Alright. Dale Romans, trainer of J Boys Echo, who earned a 01:02 buyer for that Gotham. And Dale tells us not to leave him out of our exotics.
With that we’re going to move on to our next guest, and that’s going to be Joe Sharp. He’s the trainer of the risen star and Louisiana Derby winner, Girvin. We had Joe on a few weeks back in advance of the Louisiana Derby, but now we get to find out where he’s going or where he’s at going into this Kentucky Derby. And there’s lots to talk about here, so let’s see if Joe’s on. Joe, it’s Jim Mulvihill. Are you with us?
Joe Sharp:
Yes. What’s up, Jim?
Jim Mulvihill:
Alright. Well, thanks for coming on the call. Just to bring everyone up to speed, trainer call audibles all the time of course, but we all know that with these derby horses every move gets scrutinised. So yesterday you decided not to work at Caneland as planned, you jogged instead. Just tell us what happened there.
Joe Sharp:
Well, you might say we got it the wrong way but, he was actually galloping the wrong way. We basically had decided to put in one good work about seven to eight days out and go and see the 3/4 to 5/8 on a Saturday instead of trying to put in two works. You know, he’s a horse that’s never missed a day, never missed a pattern. I kind of had a decision to make whether I wanted to try and squeeze in two works or have one solid work. You know, at this point its best we move forward with hopefully going on to the next race if we’re crawling through our hands. We want somewhat of a fresh horse and he’s fine with it, so we decided to have one solid work going into it. I talked to my [inaudible] today and brought him up to date with it. But, people will probably dissect and analyse the moves. But, you know, if I win I’ll be a hero; if I lose I’ll be the young trainer that made mistakes. I’m confident, like I said, I’m doing the right thing for the horse. So that’s all that matters.
Jim Mulvihill:
And then overall is it safe to say you’re satisfied with where he’s at right now? I mean, is he still the same Girvin that was the best three-year-old in New Orleans this year?
Joe Sharp:
Yeah. Girvin, he’s solid. You know I entered as many horses as we have and all these things. We don’t blanket approach and I know the horse like the back of my hand. And when I see this I feel like I should alter things to benefit him, that’s what we’ve done [inaudible] its’ what we all want. I’m comfortable in the decisions that we’ve made, and that’s what he needs at this point. So he is the same Girvin, absolutely.
Art Wilson:
Hey, Joe. Back in 2014 when you were making your decision whether to go out on your own when you were an assistant with Mike Maker, you’ve got a pretty extensive background in horse racing. Was there anybody you leaned on most heavily for advice on that decision? Was there a determining factor or one certain factor that made you come to your final conclusion?
Joe Sharp:
There were a few people, and probably the main one was my wife, Rosie, she always had a belief in my ability and her support meant a lot. And then Mike Maker, who I respect, [inaudible], he was very supportive and basically when I brought it up pushed me out of the nest in a good way. And with those two obviously key figures in racing behind me, telling me I was right and it was a no-brainer.
Art Wilson:
Right. And checking back on your resume, you won with the very first horse you saddled. You won with three of the first four, and five of the first eight. What were your thoughts? Did anything in your mind, boy, this game is as tough as it looks or –?
Joe Sharp:
No, it was great. It kind of was one of those like you want to pinch yourself but at the same time you kind of get that real, you know, you get that momentum and you feel a little invincible with the success and start to attract different kinds of owners, which were all good and we’re grateful for. But it’s also the ability to just run them where you want and then start having to run horses based on their pedigree and based on their owners. And so opportunities were a little bit, [inaudible] ridiculous and unrealistic. So, you know, we were proud of our start, it’s hard to do. I think that I was very aggressive from day one. I think that most people are afraid to lose horses when they start because they don’t have many. And my approach was if I lose them and I win I’ll get more, and I think that’s what made us successful about that.
Art Wilson:
And how many do you have now, Joe?
Joe Sharp:
We have around 70. We’ve only had about ten [inaudible] come in. We easily expect about, you know, around 40 or so coming in every year. So my numbers don’t fluctuate. But my business has changed a lot, you know, we started out blaming a lot and now since progressed to, you know, a lot of two year olds and three year olds, and we’ve had a phenomenal year with three year olds. We’ve been through it all but, you know, we’re definitely proud of our progression and the people that we’ve attracted.
Art Wilson:
Right. And you’re 32, correct?
Joe Sharp:
Yes.
Art Wilson:
Okay. And my final question about Girvin, what is it about – he’s going to be your third grade one-starter. What is it about him that makes you think he can win this derby and give you your first-grade win-win?
Joe Sharp:
I’m not saying that I think I’m going to win the derby, but I definitely wouldn’t trade places with anybody. I just like that he doesn’t [inaudible], he’s always consistent and he’s got the kind of running style that wins big races.
Danny Brewer:
Talk for a second about Rosie as your exercise rider and how much of a benefit is it that she’s ridden a derby. So do you think that’s been a benefit to help him prepare your horse?
Joe Sharp:
I think the biggest benefit is the fact that I don’t have to pay her.
Danny Brewer:
There you go. Alright, we like that one.
Joe Sharp:
No, I’m just kidding. She’s a very good seller in the [inaudible]. She’s been great. Honestly, because, you know, let’s face it, I would lying to myself if I said that you can just throw your shoulders back and say, you know, you got this. To have the reassurance and the fact that I’ve never seen her this excited about any horse she’s ever ridden. She really cares about Girvin and really believes in that, and so it means the world to me.
Danny Brewer:
Mike Smith, I know that he rode won the double-dog therefore he told me was going to do that. You met with him, how did that go? And as he and Rosie kind of put their heads together on this horse as well.
Joe Sharp:
No, it was great. Rosie and I were undecided about it, you know, who rides. You know, we had a couple, [inaudible] was the other one that we were very, a bit wondering if it was going to. And, honestly, at the end of the day it just came down to the fact that statistically I feel like a fool for not riding him like when I had the option. And she and I talked about it and that’s what we went with. And then we would have been fine with either. You know, and like I said, I can’t express enough that how comfortable we are with Mike. And we knew from – we knew going in that he picked a better horse than ours – it was just a heat, you know. Had loyalty, which we all, we respect his loyalty, and we would expect him to have to us if we were in the same situation, so.
Danny Brewer:
Exactly. And when you get a crack at Big Money Mike, you know, that’s it. So, anyway, I appreciate your time and I certainly do wish you folks the best of luck.
Ron Flatter:
Joe, is there any concern about the fact that Girvin has never raced in any of the start rounds?
Joe Sharp:
No, not at all. Honestly, we just like run him on the grass, get the horse to ride on anything. You know, there’s going to be a lot of horses in the derby and trips are bound. The one thing about him when not nervous is everybody, you know, is kind of trying to almost make you feel anxiety or make you feel nervous, but I just have so much confidence in him that certainly as an individual that I know he’ll go over and perform to the best of his ability. It doesn’t mean I know I’m going to win the derby – that would be, foolish to say. But I do know that I have the utmost confidence that we will go over there and absolutely give his all no matter what the pressures they are in. And that’s something as a trainer you cherish and you just want them to like it, so.
Ron Flatter:
Looking back on the Louisiana Derby, I mean, just like these other races, he was gaining ground at the end as he was winning. And so that looks good but do you also, do you look at the pace of that race and wish it were more as if it were more, just so you could know what you were getting coming out a mile and an 1/8?
Joe Sharp:
No, not really. Everybody will bring you down and try and make a case for a negative but, like I said, I wouldn’t trade places with anybody if it all ended today. I’m grateful for what Girvin has given us, and he’s a good horse. You know, anything at this point is bonus. I don’t have any reservations, right. In fact, I see it as a positive, the fact that he’s overcome sprinting on the lead, no pace, turf. He’s overcome a lot of things which people would consider inexperienced and only had poor starts. He’s actually shown a lot of depth in these poor starts.
Ron Flatter:
And to that end, I mean, look at the positives. And do you think his style just may be better than others?
Joe Sharp:
You know, that’s what I said. He’s got the running style – his overall being is the kind that wins big races. He’s not the kind of horse that’s going to get lucky and win a big race – he’s a good horse. And, to me honestly the Kentucky Derby is not – it sounds weird, and only if it sounds anything but exactly what it is. It has not been my lifelong goal to win the Kentucky Derby, although it’s not going to be that big. I wasn’t the little kid that couldn’t wait to win the Kentucky Derby. In fact, I mean, the bigger step to me has been, is the World Championship. Obviously the derby is important too but –
Alicia Hughes:
I thought I’d ask you what are some of the benefits that you feel with, that you’ve gotten so far by bringing him to Keeneland? Have you seen just a change in his demeanour? Do you feel like it’s a more relaxed setting for him?
Joe Sharp:
Well, actually, by coming to Keeneland – it’s been a lot more relaxed. And, you know, like I say, you don’t even know there’s a derby going on there – which is huge. In my opinion he’s just kind of stable and just relaxed and trying every day without any interruptions. It’s been enjoyable for all of us. We have markets across the street, we have good grass, we have everything right there at our fingertips. I think it would be foolish not to take advantage of the ability to have him there.
Alicia Hughes:
But I know – originally last week you had planned to have Mike come in and see if he could get on him for the work. Are you going to – is the plan still to have Mike come back in for this Friday to work him there?
Joe Sharp:
Well, I think Mike’s probably going to have appointments for the weekend. Mike and I talked yesterday on the phone and it makes you guys feel better Mike getting on maybe, it makes it sound better, but he doesn’t need to sit on him before the derby to change the outcome. Do you know what I mean? Mike can throw his leg over anything out there and get the same out of them whether he’s sat on them before or not. So if it doesn’t work out the weekend or he gets to ride him in the derby or he gets to work him before the derby then we’ll know, we’ll feel just as confident.