Jim Mulvihill: Good afternoon everybody. Racing’s second season, if you will, continues this weekend at some of the country’s premiere racetracks, including Saratoga, Delmar, and Monmouth Park, and don’t forget that two of this week’s top races, the Grade I Diana for older turf females, and the Grade II Jim Dandy for three-year-olds, will be featured on the NBC Sports Network Summer at Saratoga Series. That’s this Saturday, from 5:00 to 6:00 Eastern.
As always, we’ve got a great lineup of guests today that includes later in this call Arizona’s co-owner, Bryan Sullivan; Stephanie’s Kitten’s trainer, Wayne Catalano; and Paynter’s owner, Ahmed Zayat. So without further ado, let’s get right to it.
The first guest today is Dallas Stewart. He’s the trainer of Kentucky Derby runner-up, Golden Soul, who’s probably for Sunday’s $1 million Grade I Haskell Invitational. He’s going to face the Preakness winner, Oxbow, and some other talented three-year-olds, including, of course, Verrazano and Micromanage. Two of Dallas’s other top horses are in action Saturday at Saratoga. That’s Perfect Title, trying to make a big step up in the Jim Dandy, and the three-year-old filly, Irish Lute, who’s going in the Grade I Prioress.
So now, let’s welcome in Dallas Stewart. Dallas, are you with us?
Dallas Stewart: Yes, thanks for having me.
Jim Mulvihill: Thank you for being here. Let’s start with Golden Soul. This is a horse that—he’s won more than a half million dollars, yet he’s still eligible for an one other than. He got paychecks in the Lecompte, the Louisiana Derby, and then he had his big Kentucky Derby effort. But last time out, in the Belmont, he ran a distant ninth. Let’s go back to that day. You skipped the Preakness to point for the Belmont. The consensus at the time was that the longer distance was going to be better for Golden Soul, but he never really made his run that day. Why do you suppose he didn’t match his Derby effort in the Belmont?
Dallas Stewart: Well, we missed a little bit of time with him. He only had one work between the Derby and the Belmont and just—he had a little situation come up, his appetite. He just—you know, he acted like the race had really taken a lot out of him. So, you know, I think just maybe got just a little bit tired. Robby said he got to the head of the stretch in good shape but he just didn’t push on. So, he made a run around the turn; just didn’t finish up, but I think it was just a fitness thing. So, he came out of it good and seems to be doing very well now.
Jim Mulvihill: Yes, so let’s get to now. I know he had a nice work on Saturday that you were pleased—you were pretty pleased with, from what I’ve heard. How has he been training coming into this million dollar race?
Dallas Stewart: You know, very good. His works are always good. He’s a horse that’s just so pleasant to train, puts a lot into his training, and he’s always feeling good, he’s always on top of his game. Just the Derby was such a huge effort, that’s all, that just had taken a little bit out of him. But, you know, he’s a wonderful horse to train, as I’ve said, and seems to be on. So, we’re hopefully ready for Sunday.
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent. Well, we’ll come to some of your other runners in a little bit, but first we’ll open it up to the media. Michelle, do you want to see who else has some questions for Dallas Stewart?
Steve Edelson: I’m just curious. Pretty much the entire Haskell field is either trained by Wayne Lukas or conditioned by guys who worked a long time for him. Can you just talk about him and his influence on the game and on so many trainers who have gone out on their own?
Dallas Stewart: Well, you know, it was pretty amazing. It was pouring down rain this morning at Saratoga and he was out there on his pony and, you know, he just loves the game and he was just great to work for, just puts a lot of effort into his work ethic and just his love for the game is pretty amazing. So, I think everybody that works for him that’s training right now, you know, respects him very highly for bringing a lot of that to the table and giving us opportunities early on, you know, to be around nice horses and to give us an opportunity to work for him and train. And he gave us nice horses to train and to learn from there, so, you know, it’s just—and to see him still out there working hard, you know, is pretty amazing. It’s like the story—like a storybook.
Ron Flatter: Dallas, what goes into the thinking, not just for you, but maybe even if you could speak to other trainers, as to why you would choose the Haskell versus the Jim Dandy or vice versa.
Dallas Stewart: Well, the purse is bigger, obviously, and—heck, I don’t know. I guess just because the purse is bigger, you know, and I think he deserves to run in those type of races. This other horse that I’m going to run in the Jim Dandy, I think he’s a really nice horse too. So, it was just one or the other, so I don’t know. I didn’t flip a coin or anything, but I just thought that horse should run for the bigger money, I guess, I would say.
Ron Flatter: Do you buy the speed reputation of Monmouth?
Dallas Stewart: Yes, it’s a little bit of a factor, you know? But if it rains down there, it gets very sloppy and this horse ran very well in the slop. So, it rains down there a lot sometimes, so we’ll just see. Maybe it’ll be a speed battle and it’ll help us out, so we’ll see.
Danny Brewer: Talk about Perfect Title and Orb. What makes you think he’s ready to step up into a race like the Jim Dandy?
Dallas Stewart: Well, you know, I was asked me the same question, why jump into a Grade II with him already. And if you look back to his last race, I mean, it was a very impressive showing, you know, eased him up the last 10 yards. The horse that he beat came back and won, of course. Proud Strike’s a very, very nice horse, and just the way he did it. And this horse, I believed in him all spring long. He just—he needed time to catch up and time to get his groove on and, you know, I think he’s ready. I think he’s as talented as Golden Soul. He was his workmate all along, all last fall; went during the winter, into the spring. And he could almost—he couldn’t beat him, but he could hang right there with him for about a length off of him, and so I know he’s got some talent, because Golden Soul tested him a lot. So, adding those two things up. It’s a nice purse, you know, 600,000. If we get beat here, we can always back up. We’re just rolling the dice a little bit, but I really think that we got dice that are loaded a little bit. I feel like we’ve got a chance here, so—I believe in the horse.
Danny Brewer: He’s got Monarchos and Northern Dancer in his bloodline.
Dallas Stewart: Oh, yes.
Danny Brewer: Does he have that kind of speed, do you think?
Dallas Stewart: Let me tell you what, he’s one of the best-bred horses on the racetrack. He’s a grandson of Personal Ensign. Mr. Fipke bought his mother at the sale, and he’s a daughter—she’s a daughter, excuse me—she’s a daughter of Personal Ensign that was un-raced. And he’s got the pedigree to run any kind of distance, to run in any kind of Stakes to compete at a world-class level. So, I think that there’s a lot there to offer; I really do.
Danny Brewer: Well, I certainly do wish you the best of luck and I appreciate your time.
Will Springstead: Yes, thank you. I was curious about Irish Lute. It seems that she’s run a bunch of distances and you’ve got her, you know, between six and a touch over a mile. I’m curious what makes you think at this time that the Priorus is the right race for her, and is this the distance you think you might be committed to?
Dallas Stewart: Will, thank you for the question. She’s a filly that’s very versatile. You know, we started her off sprinting and we’ve kind of increased her distance a little bit. But I just think that she’s very—that she’s a very effective sprinter. Even up to a mile she can be effective, and she’s a very—she’s a quality horse. She was third in the Eight Belles; just got beat out, what, a length or so to a Grade I winner. And then she came back; she won last time. She trains very well. She black lettered on the Saratoga training track a couple of days ago, so she’s really on form. I think she’s doing well. They say it’s a small field. They say that it’s going to be four horses, so hopefully, if she doesn’t win, she’ll get some Grade I black type. So I’m very excited about running her, I can tell you.
Jim Mulvihill: All right, Dallas, let me ask you one more follow-up here about Irish Lute. Her work Saturday over the Oklahoma track was the bullet of the morning; that was in 1:02. Just for the handicappers out there, how did you evaluate that work and, when we’re looking at works over the training track versus the main track at Saratoga, have those been comparable this season?
Dallas Stewart: Well, I mean, I don’t really know. I’ve trained a lot over on the training track and I breeze a lot there. Every now and then, I’ll go over to the main track. I just tend to think that the main track changes from morning to afternoon and that the training track at Oklahoma is very safe and they get a lot out of it. So, you know, there’s guys that have been training here for years and they use the Oklahoma track as their main work area. So, that’s what I’ve done over the years. I feel good about it. She moved through it excellent. She came out of it great. I just think she’s in top form. She’s a very—she’s a quality filly and I think she’s going to represent us very well on Saturday. I’m excited about running it.
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent. Well, we appreciate your time this afternoon. Before I let you go, I’ve got one more question for you, and this one’s pretty important. Your beloved New Orleans Saints open training camp this Thursday. How do you evaluate the Saints’ chances this season?
Dallas Stewart: Well, at least we’ve got a coach. Last year we didn’t even have a coach, you know? So, even though those guys are professionals and all that, they still need somebody chewing on their butts, so they got a guy that’s going to be on their butt this weekend. So, I think we’re going to do well. We’ve got a great offense. We’ve just got to tackle somebody, I guess, you can say. There was no defense last year. So, I think they’ll do well.
Jim Mulvihill: That’s what I like to hear. All right. Well, thank you, Dallas Stewart. Again, we appreciate your time and good luck with all your stake centers this weekend.
Dallas Stewart: Thank you very much.
Jim Mulvihill: All right. Moving on the call, our next guest is going to be Bryan Sullivan. Bryan Sullivan is a partner in the Let’s Go Stable with his brother-in-law, Kevin Scatuorchio. They formed Let’s Go Stable in 2006 and they’ve found success with stakes winners like Glacken’s Gal, Ready’s Echo, and El Padrino. Along with the Coolmore principles, they own Verrazano, who was undefeated entering this year’s Kentucky Derby, where he finished 14th. Last month he came back to win the Pegasus by nearly 10 lengths, and that was over the very same Monmouth Park track as Sunday’s Haskell. Bryan Sullivan, welcome to our call today.
Bryan Sullivan: Thanks for having me; appreciate it.
Jim Mulvihill: You’ve got it. Bryan, Verrazano really got back on track in the Pegasus, as we mentioned a few seconds ago. Did he need that confidence boost coming out of the Derby?
Bryan Sullivan: Yes, probably. I mean, maybe we needed the confidence boost more than he did but, you know, the Derby’s such a tough race to win. We’re just happy to get him back on track and, you know, looking forward to Sunday.
Jim Mulvihill: And by all indications, he is back on track. He had a sizzling work on Monday, 47-and-1. That was the fastest of 99 that morning at the distance. Did he do that on his own? What did you hear about that work?
Bryan Sullivan: Yes, unfortunately, I was away with my wife and kids, so I was not able to see it, which always bothers me because I hate not being there. But Todd said he did really well; he and Micromanage worked essentially head-to-head. We were on inside, but—, he didn’t need much at this point, but the two of them seem to be doing very, very well. And they got some track earlier in the morning yesterday and Todd told me that when they had breeze, which is probably close to 9:00, 9:30, that the track was just in perfect shape. So, you know, good horses go fast, but maybe that—maybe the track helped. But I think, you know, they—I know we’re doing well and just looking forward to Sunday.
Jim Mulvihill: That seems to be the way it’s looking right now. Let’s open up the call to the media and see who else has questions for Bryan Sullivan.
Ron Flatter: Bryan, I’ll pose the same question to you that I posed to Dallas a bit ago. It seems with the Haskell and Jim Dandy in competition for three-year-olds, is the purse really the only reason that people come to the Haskell, or what’s your reckoning and why did you make the choice over the Jim Dandy?
Bryan Sullivan: Well, for me, I live about a mile from Monmouth Park. So, I grew up always dreaming of running a horse in this race. So, that was first and foremost. You know, I think when you throw a million dollars in a Grade I on top of it with what appears to be a wide-open race to be three-year-old champion, I think that was kind of what led us there. We felt like, you know, we needed to win a Grade I and, you know, that’s why we chose the Haskell.
Ron Flatter: And do you—when you look at the Pegasus, the top rival in the race was Itsmyluckyday. Do you still think there may be some questions as far as challenges that Verrazano needs to answer?
Bryan Sullivan: Well, you know, not in my mind, but I can see where people say—I mean listen, the horse is doing tremendous right now. One hiccup happened to be on a racetrack that he didn’t care for, plus kind of got stepped in going into the first turn. So, you know, listen. Everyone has opinions. The way he ran on Pegasus day, you know, it’s terrible to see something like that happen to a horse, especially a top horse. I’m not sure anyone’s going to beat him that day, regardless. I mean, he won about as easy as a horse could win.
Ron Flatter: You glad Power Broker is not coming?
Bryan Sullivan: Yes, listen. I would like them all not to come, but with this horse, when he runs his race, I’m very, very confident. He’s that kind of horse. I mean, we’ve owned horses where you go to these races and you say, “Well, maybe we need to go fast upfront, or this needs to happen, or maybe I need some rain; I need some help.” When this horse is right, you know, he’s a very, very good animal.
Danny Brewer: You talked about when he’s right he’s very, very good. How close to right do you think he is right now?
Bryan Sullivan: I think he’s probably as close as he possibly could be, you know, talking to Todd, watching him train. I was up there about 10 days ago. Physically, he looks great. I think he’s matured a lot. He’s carrying great weight. I mean, the one thing we have noticed is that in the mornings he’s a lot smarter. He knows what he’s to do and not to do, and so yes, he’s always giving us the indication that this is the type of horse that will probably just get better with age as well. So, he’s doing really, really well.
Oxbow and Micromanage and Golden Soul, and I’m sure they’re going to scare some other people in there, are very, very nice horses, so it’ll be a good test.
Danny Brewer: You know, before the Derby there was a lot of hoopla surrounding Verrazano, and he was the next super horse, and then the Derby happened and we know how this sport goes. Is this a chance for him to find a phone booth there in Monmouth and bust on out and show that he really is that super horse everybody thought he was?
Bryan Sullivan: Yes, you know, I think so. It’s tough. I mean, this horse had—I don’t want to say he gets no respect, but he—we crammed a lot in in about four or five months to get to the Derby, and we spaced everything and we did it properly. But to go from un-raced as a two-year-old and to the—you know, essentially the Derby favorite or co-favorite, was a lot to ask. And no excuses, Orb was the best horse that day; it wasn’t our day. But, you know, he just—I mean, I remember walking over the track; I knew we were in trouble. I mean, we had talked before, the week leading up to it. We just didn’t want it to stop raining. We wanted it to rain the whole day, and it essentially stopped two hours before the Derby and it turned into peanut butter. And you could just tell when he broke, he was holding his head high, and he just did not like it. You know, it’s not an excuse. It’s just a very, very tough race to win. But like you said, as soon as you stub your toe in this game, I mean, you’re yesterday’s news. So, we’re looking to get back on the front page.
Bill Finley: As we speak on July 23rd, I think it’s pretty unclear who the top three-year-old in the country is. Certainly, Verrazano enters into the equation. If we’re having this same conversation about two months from now, do you expect that Verrazano can sort of take over this division which is wide-open right now, and what does he have to do to get that done?
Bryan Sullivan: I think he’s got to win on Sunday. I mean, that would be, to me, the first step. You know, I don’t know how to rank him. I think you’re right. There’s probably four or five horses, and maybe there’s some we’re not even talking about that could win this thing. But, Orb’s got two Grade Ones. You know, Palace Malice is a nice horse. And so to me, we need to win our second Grade I and then we can kind of plot out going from there. But, it’s going to be a tough two or three months to kind of sort through all this, and I think races like the Haskell, like the Travers and Jim Dandy. And then, where do you go from there in the fall, that’s really going to be the case. I mean, some of these races—maybe the Kelso. Some of these races—I mean, they’re going to be the races that could kind of sway who’s on top. And I think to a certain extent we may not even get any clarity, but maybe it comes down to performances. So, maybe we need to awe some people going forward and to show that we’re the horse that we know we are.
Bill Finley: Bryan, and I know I’m guilty of getting ahead of myself, but a Haskell—I’m getting way ahead of myself—but a Haskel-Travers double would certainly be a major accomplishment and no doubt put you ahead of the division. Any thoughts yet—the brain trust for you, Todd, and the team so far as what the plans are for the Travers?
Bryan Sullivan: You know, we haven’t even mentioned it, this has been our focus. And sometimes you get in trouble in this game, you look too far ahead, and so we haven’t even mentioned the word Travers. We’re solely focused here, and if we can get this done, it comes out in a good order, you know, I don’t see any reason why we wouldn’t. But to answer your question, we haven’t discussed anything past this race.
Tom Pedulla: I wanted to ask you, as you reflect on Derby Day, I guess first of all, what was that day like emotionally, and do you think there were one or two factors that contributed to the performance, or ultimately what went wrong?
Bryan Sullivan: You know, it’s an incredible feeling to have a horse in the Derby. It was great to be there with Kevin and to be there two years in a row. Yes, I think our investors were rewarded with that, and so in that regard, it was—it’s a tremendous experience. It’s exhausting, when it’s over. It’s such a mental grind to get there and get through it. But, you know, like—we were over the moon to be there.
As for what went wrong, I mean, I tell people, I said, I don’t know why I try and win this race every year. It’s so hard to win. I literally think about it—I don’t know—10 times a day, every day of the year, and then you get there and you say to yourself I’ve got to run against 20 horses over a track that’s been rained on for an hour and a half and, you know, there’s just so many factors you can’t control, so it’s such a tough race to say I want to win because luck is such a big part of that race. As for what happened to us, you could take your pick. I mean, it could’ve—I don’t think he cared for the Churchill surface as a whole, to begin with. I mean, he works good over any racetrack, and he worked good over that racetrack. But did he relish it? Probably not. I know he did not like what we ran over, as a number of horses didn’t. And if you go back and you look at replay, speaking to Johnny after the Pegasus, you can kind of see where he gets stepped on by Vyjack going into that first turn. It wasn’t Vyjack’s problem. It was just—you know, it’s the Derby. There’s too many horses, probably, in the race to begin with. And so that probably didn’t help, either.
Now, if you ran that race on that surface the way it was, we’re never going to win it. You can run it a hundred times. We’re never going to win that race with that pace setup. And so, you’ve just got to move forward.
Ed McNamara: Before the Derby, the consensus was that Verrazano was an absolutely brilliant horse, but the question was how far he would run. Do you think he might have some distance limitations and that this week could find him out?
Bryan Sullivan: I think all horses have distance limitations, but regarding Verrazano, I think a mile and an eighth is well within his scope. So, that doesn’t bother me. If you say how do you feel going a mile and a quarter, well, I’d say, “Hmm, well that probably depends on the track, the pace setup, a bunch of different things.” But I don’t think he has any limitations. Todd’s never thought he has any limitations. The way he trains, the way he’s kind of matured in the last two months I think kind of lends to that. And yes, he’s a very, very push-button type of horse. So I think this race will tell us a lot about Verrazano, and maybe more importantly, you know, does he have distance limitations. But, you know, we firmly believe that he doesn’t and we’re just excited for Sunday.
Jim Mulvihill: Bryan, I’ll ask you to touch on one more topic before we let you go. You know, everybody on this call would probably agree that racing could use more young, enthusiastic owners, especially playing at the highest level like you guys have been the last few years. What has being an owner and racing brought to your life and what kind of advice would you have for someone who’s thinking about getting into the game?
Bryan Sullivan: First off, it’s incredibly tough work, this line of business. Everyone comes up to me and says oh, you’re in horse racing; you’re so lucky; it’s so prestigious. And they don’t know how much work and preparation goes in behind the scenes, i.e. with Todd and his staff, the hot walkers, the grooms, all the help. It’s a tremendous amount of work goes into getting these horses ready for these big days. I don’t think people appreciate how much work goes into it.
In terms of getting more people in, I’m all for getting younger people in. It’s a unique niche that I found. I got lucky that I was able to learn a lot of the game via my father-in-law, Jim Scatuorchio, and Todd and J.J. Pletcher have been great the last 10 or 15 years teaching me. I kind of have a leg up, so to speak, being 37 and being involved in this game since I probably was 20, 25 years old. So, a lot of people don’t get the experience that I have until their later—older in life or retired or something like that. With technology the way it is and the websites and the clocking and all the stuff, you can take advantage of it. It’s not easy, but it’s just like anything. If you put your mind to it and dedicate some time, you’ll be surprised on how much you can pick up and learn.
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent. Well, once again, we appreciate your time and good luck on Sunday.
Bryan Sullivan: I appreciate it. Thanks, guys.
Jim Mulvihill: All right, Bryan Sullivan. Thank you very much. And now, we’re going to move on to our next guest on this call, and that is trainer Wayne Catalano. Wayne trains Grade I winner, Stephanie’s Kitten, who’s in Saturday’s $600,000 Grade I Diana at Saratoga. That one, of course, is part of the NBC Sports Network Summer at Saratoga Series from 5:00 to 6:00 p.m. On Saturday. Stephanie’s Kitten is a three-time Grade I winner. She took the 2011 Alcibiades at Keeneland prior to winning that year’s Breeders’ Cup Juvenile Filly Turf. This year she’s two for two, including her last start in the Grade I Just A Game at Belmont. Wayne Catalano, thanks for joining us.
Wayne Catalano: Hey, how are you, son? Nice talking to you guys. How are you all doing today?
Jim Mulvihill: