Eric Wing: Welcome to today’s NTRA National Media Teleconference.
Once again, lots of racing on television and, in fact, this weekend, two separate programs to cover the two big 100 point to the winner Triple Crown—or Kentucky Derby prep races. From 4:30 to 6:00 p.m. on NBC you can watch the Toyota Blue Grass Stakes and then at 6:00 p.m., switch on over to NBC Sports Network where you’ll get an hour long telecast with full coverage of the Arkansas Derby. So, again, NBC from 4:30 to 6:00 for the Toyota Blue Grass Stakes and 6 to 7 p.m. on NBC Sports Network for the Arkansas Derby.
And we will have guests to talk about both of those big races. A little later on in the call, we’ll chat with co-owner Jim Covello, who’s one of the people behind Falling Sky, the Sam F. Davis winner earlier this year at Tampa. Falling Sky will see action at Oaklawn in the Arkansas Derby. And then after that, we’ll talk to jockey Kevin Krigger, the man of hour out West. He guided Goldencents to win last Saturday’s Santa Anita Derby and it would be a somewhat historic run for him should he indeed make it into the starting gate on the first Saturday in May aboard Goldencents.
First though, we’re delighted to welcome in trainer Gary Contessa and Gary has one of the big horses ready for the Toyota Blue Grass in Rydilluc. Gary, it’s Eric Wing in New York; thanks for being with us today.
Gary Contessa: How you doing Eric? My pleasure.
Eric Wing: Oh, good, good. Gary, the horse really has been as impressive as he could be in his last three starts. Big blow out daylight wins over the grass; his first start on the dirt, not so much. Did you realize how good he was going into that first turf start, or did he catch you by surprise the same way he caught many of us by surprise when you put him on the grass?
Gary Contessa: Well, going into his very first start on the dirt, I thought it was going to be Christmas, okay, because he had trained so incredibly well. I really was of the belief that he would win that day, and when he ran—I’ll tell you what, he very much caught us off guard that day. We took him to the paddock— he’s normally very cool, calm and collected kind of dude. He might bite a little bit and he might carry on a little bit, but he’s been, up to that point, he’s been very calm and he went to the paddock and he was a lunatic. He’s on his hind legs, he’s fully excited, if you understand what I’m saying. You know, oh boy. And he is just—it was all we could do to get him saddled and he dropped the rider two or three times. No doubt he ran his race way before he got on the race track that day.
But coming out of that race, I said—even though he was wild and crazy that day, I expected him to show more, and so I said, you know what, I can’t be this wrong about this horse. It has to be that he’s a turf horse and there’s a lot of turf in his pedigree. So therein, I made that decision to go to the turf, but we were also ready for his antics in the paddock. We got him to the paddock, he was very, very difficult but we had schooled him, we knew what to expect and we ran him on the turf and he won. So I really expected him to win that day on the grass, but I also expected him to win the time before on the dirt.
Eric Wing: Okay, and that takes us basically up to where we are now. And while you’ve been the leading trainer in New York four years consecutively from ’06 to ’09, you’ve won—you’ve had success at Keeneland having won the Ashland. You’ve never had a Triple Crown starter and I suppose even if he wins the Blue Grass by five, people are going to wonder about Rydilluc’s dirt capabilities. First of all, would you think Derby with him if he gives you the right kind of effort? And if so, would you be confident? And thirdly, how exciting would you—would it be for you to have a horse in the Derby?
Gary Contessa: Well, I’m sure guys know I’ve sold a few Derby prospects. I put a couple of kids through college by selling Derby prospects, which is a very, very good business to be in. So, you know, I’m sure everybody knows I sold Peace Rules to Bobby Frankel. I made a lot of money, I put a couple of my sons through college with that money and have lived a good life thanks to selling some very good horses. But, yes, this is the first time we’ve kept one. Leonard Green was kind enough to step up and to say, you know, we’re not going to sell this one, we’re going to take him, and I’ll tell you what, I am very confident. We wouldn’t be at the Blue Grass if we weren’t thinking Derby, so if he runs one/two, we are going to the Derby. You know, God willing, he’s healthy and sound, we are going to the Derby and I would be very confident in him in going into the Derby. I think he trains as well on dirt as he does on poly, and he’s training unbelievable on the poly track and he trains that well on turf.
So I haven’t lost the feeling that he could be a dirt horse and there’s a very good chance. I don’t know if you read Rob Whitely’s article, letter to the editor in Blood-Horse, but he explained Rydilluc’s pedigree in detail and why that horse should be a dirt horse, and he certainly convinced me. You know, I’m his trainer but he convinced me with his words and that’s the way the horse is trained. He always trained that way, but his issues are in the paddock and being at Keeneland every day, we have schooled him every day. For those people who are going to be there, he is a very vocal horse. You are going to know that Rydilluc has entered the paddock when it happens. He screams at the top of his lungs, he carries on, he’s difficult. He wants every horse in that race to know he is there and he is bad, and he is a bad hombre in the paddock. I mean, we sweat getting the saddle on him, but we have schooled him every day this week and he has been a dream.
Tomorrow, he’s going to school in Keeneland with the second race. On Friday, he’s going to school in Keeneland with a race; in between, Thursday, he’ll school in the regular schooling hours and that’s his downfall. But I don’t think it’s going to be an issue; he’s been over there every day and he’s been a real gentleman about this. And I’m a believer that he will run on the dirt, but you know, I’m not wrong in wondering, just like everybody else, what’s he going to do on the poly, what’s he going to do on the dirt? I mean, we know we have a great turf horse, maybe one of the best turf horses, but what—you know, this is a one-shot deal. This is kind of like the final—we’re in the final four here. If we win, we go—we move on to the finals, and if we don’t, we’re going to regroup and we’re going to really attack those turf stakes this year. But the way he’s training, I have never had a horse train as well as this horse is training at this moment. I can tell you that.
Eric Wing: It all sounds very exciting, Gary. I realize I’ve been mispronouncing his name. It’s Rydilluc (cross talking).
Gary Contessa: I’ll tell you what. I mispronounced his name for the first couple of months too, but the owner keeps reminding me and he’s named for Ryan, Dillon (ph) and Luc (ph), his sons and nephew, so it’s Rydilluc.
Eric Wing: Okay, that makes more sense then in terms of an aid to pronouncing it correctly.
Gary Contessa: For the longest time, I called him Rydillic and Shawn Shay would say, Rydilluc, Rydilluc; finally it sunk in.
Eric Wing: All right, it’s starting to sink in for me too, Gary, so thank you for that. I might ask you a question or two later, but I want to give our media listening in their opportunity, so for the first time today, I’m going to throw it back over to Michelle and she’ll see what questions the writers and broadcasters may have for you.
Jennie Rees: Yes, Gary, your enthusiasm is contagious and admirable, so please take this in the spirit that it’s meant, that you’ve had horses before that you’ve been very enthusiastic about. You had that really fast horse a few years ago and you thought this was the one. How is it different with this horse, that maybe this really is the one?
Gary Contessa: Well, this horse, the difference with—you know, Eightyfiveandafifty is the horse you’re talking about from a few years ago.
Jennie Rees: Yes, that’s right.
Gary Contessa: And just like this horse and the question mark on poly, Eightyfiveandafifty, we didn’t know if he was going to go far enough to be a Derby contender, but this horse is different. Edgar Prado has never beat this horse up. He has never—Edgar turned to me and he said, “You know something Gary? We have not seen this horse’s best race yet. We are nowhere’s near the bottom of this horse, yet he’s won by daylight just about every time.” So he’s exciting. You know, watching him train in the morning, he does everything with ease. His stride is probably one of the greatest strides I’ve ever seen in a horse in 30 years of training horses. So he’s a good reason to be as excited as I am, and he’s certainly—he’s caused my excitement.
Jennie Rees: Yes. And would he school (inaudible) in the paddock during races opening weekend at Keeneland, or was it in the morning, you know, regular schooling?
Gary Contessa: He has not schooled with a race yet. But interesting thing about Keeneland is that, 12 o’clock to 12:30 schooling time, there’s 20 horses or so in there, so he’s not—he doesn’t know that he’s not over there for a race, but the difference is, I really—we have detention barn here you go to first, an assembly area, which is definitely going to have an effect on his mind, so we’re going to do that a couple of times. And then he’s going to go over with horses and we’re going to saddle him just like he’s in that race, so he’s going to get to play kind of for real tomorrow and then again on Friday. I’ll be honest with you, if he’s bad enough tomorrow, I’d probably do him Thursday and Friday with races.
Jennie Rees: And final question. Trainers often are quick to want to sell because it’s a lot of money with the commission and everything and they know what can happen if you don’t, but owners, they’re doing something else for a living. You said you put your kids through college on this, but was it tough sometimes when you were selling those horses and you’d see that they’d go (inaudible) Blue Grass and then third in the Derby and think (inaudible) a really nice horse. Was it tough for you professionally (cross talking)?
Gary Contessa: You know something? I’m of the—I’m a really strong father and family guy and it really wasn’t tough for me. It was really easy to root for those horses. But I’ll be honest with you; having this experience with this horse, I wonder what my career would have been like had I kept all those horses. It certainly has crossed my mind now in the latter part of my career what it would have been like if I’d kept National Pride, Citrus Kid, Lovely Isle, Peace Rules, all the good horses I sold over the years, what my career would have been considered. Probably, I would have been—it would have been different for sure but I didn’t—I have no regrets at all. It was—you know, I rooted for those horses and I was very happy and, you know—and like I said, I was able to support my family in a good way too.
Danny Brewer: Okay, the spirit of Rydilluc, is that good news, bad news?
Gary Contessa: Well, I’m going to—as a trainer, I’m going to tell you it’s really bothered me many times, but now that we know him, we know he can be difficult and run. Many, many horses that are his kind of bad in the paddock do not run, but this horse, he does what he does and he goes out there and he wins by four or five. So he has certainly probably added an ulcer or two to his trainer, but we—you know, after watching him do this three times in a row and watching him go out there—actually four times in a row and watching him recover and go out there and be a race horse, I’m okay with it in this instance, but he is a rarity. Usually this kind of excited, where a horse is like stallion excited, if you know what I’m saying – I’m trying to mince my words here – you know, a horse is stallion kind of excited about being in the paddock, that’s—my entire career, that’s been a negative. I see a horse like that in the paddock, I take him and throw him right out of the race.
This horse has done that. He was probably at his most difficult, stallion-wise, in the Palm Beach at Gulfstream and it was 80-some-odd degrees. He didn’t sweat. He just went in there, showed off, was absolutely out of his mind and went out and won the race. So in his regard, I’m okay with it, but 99% of the time, I find it to be a real negative.
Danny Brewer: So if the Saturday dawns, he comes in the paddock and he’s cool as a cucumber, do you know something’s going to be wrong with him? I mean, do you expect him to be—is that what you’re looking for, him to be all riled up (inaudible) or is Viagra, or whatever he’s on?
Gary Contessa: He’s not going to be cool as a cucumber, but I think, from the schooling that we’ve done with him, I don’t think he’s going to stallion-esque. I think we’ve got that under control. I can’t promise it, but it’s not going to bother me either way, but he’s not going to be cool. You’re going to know that he’s there. If he went into that paddock and was quiet and cool, I would have to whip out a thermometer and stick it in him and find out what was wrong with him.
Danny Brewer: Okay. So lastly for me, the transition from grass to synthetic to the dirt, was—is Keeneland a logical place, because there have been a lot of Derby winners who have prepped there. Do you like that surface there? Do you think that’s going to really give him a good feel for what the dirt’s like at Churchill?
Gary Contessa: I think it’s a fantastic stepping stone but it’s completely different. You know, I think Animal Kingdom kind of set the table for this kind of move by winning on the poly and going on and winning on the dirt. So I mean, we’re kind of following his lead in this instance, but I do think it’s a great stepping stone. I think poly, I think it’s like a 50% step forward, going to poly and then to dirt. I believe it’s a lovely tool and it’s a great stepping stone for this particular horse. I don’t—I could have gone to the Wood Memorial, I could have gone to any number of dirt races, but between you and I, I hope I only have to find out if he is a dirt horse on Derby Day. I think this is the perfect stepping stone for this horse.
Jay Privman: In light of the behavior that you’re describing with the colt, was there ever any thought given to gelding him?
Gary Contessa: No way. No, no, he’s—again, with the exception of the first race, and every trainer forgives first races, I mean, this is a—if this horse was by nobody out of nothing and he was doing this in $20,000 claiming races, he would have been a gelding already. But he doesn’t do it in the morning training; he only does it on race day in the paddock. So at this point in his career, we’ve learned to deal with it, really. You’re going to see—if you get to watch the show and he does go full boar and he’s really bad the day of the Blue Grass, you’re going to be—it’s going to be a little—you’ll be admirable as to how we handle it. We’ve kind of figured him out and we’ve figured how to get him through it, and amazingly, the minute he walks on to the track, that’s all forgotten. He goes straight to business. He goes out there, he gallops, he does nothing wrong. It’s all about the paddock with this horse and, you know, he’s ensured that he’s not going to be caught already.
Jay Privman: And then, sort of switching subjects with him, how much scoreboard watching have you been doing regarding the Derby points list and, you know, what you need to do to get to the Derby vis-à-vis the Blue Grass?
Gary Contessa: You know, every trainer does scoreboard watching, and thanks to guys like you, we get the opportunity to see it because you guys write about it and you talk about it and—you know, because believe me, mathematician most us aren’t and it is a difficult system to grasp, but basically, he runs one/two, we’re in and that’s the way it’s going to be. If he runs third, I don’t think I’m going to—you know, I mean if there’s an outside chance, if it’s looking like, okay the numbers are going to fall in, we might take a look at it or ship over there and train. But honestly, we’re going into this thinking, we run one/two, we’re guaranteed to get in and that’s what we’re—if we run one/two, we’re going to head over to Churchill.
Jay Privman: And then just one follow-up on that. You said it’s been kind of difficult to, you know, to wrap your—not—these aren’t the exact words you just used, but you said it’s been kind of difficult to wrap your hands around the concept. I mean, are you becoming more familiar with it, do you like it, or do you still think it needs to play out? What’s (cross talking).
Gary Contessa: I’m becoming more familiar with it and I like what it’s done for the prep races. We have gotten some really strong prep races because of it. We’re getting 14 horse fields in the Blue Grass and big fields in every one of these races. I kind of think that it’s accomplishing what they were setting out to accomplish in the first place, you know, that—let’s just say somebody won a big two-year-old race last year, he can’t run once and train into the Derby anymore; you’ve got to get the points as a three-year-old. So I like it. I’m liking what I’m seeing and it hasn’t been difficult for us in any way, and I’m sure—you know how trainers are; I’m sure there’s equal amount of trainers that don’t like it, but I find it to be a great system and I think it’s made the preps really exciting.
Carol Holden: Hi, Mr. Contessa, thanks a lot for coming with us on the show today. You basically came up under what would be considered now “old school trainers”, Frank Martin, Stanley Hough, Jimmy Picou, Cott Campbell, people like that. Who from that group probably had the most influence on you? And also, do you think they would also be along with you on this Derby trail in thinking that you can make these transitions on the surfaces and that but basically have been done very little in the past?
Gary Contessa: Well, I’ve made no secret of the fact that Frank Martin made me the trainer that I am today, and Frank Martin was about as old school as it gets. And I think he would probably tell me I was nuts because he didn’t hold any punches and he probably would have taken a horse like this and made him into a great turf horse and just concentrated on being a turf horse. He wasn’t big, and I think either—he wasn’t a guy who—he viewed going to the Derby as a headache. If you knew Frank, that’s the way he was. He was the kind of guy that would say, “oh man, I’ve got to ship all these people”. Matter of fact, we won the Breeders’ Cup with Outstandingly when I was his assistant trainer and he didn’t come out because it was a headache for him to go out and be with her in California. He sent us. So he made me a trainer, he was as old school as they come and he probably would have made Rydilluc the top turf horse in the country.
But I think, you know, the owners and trainer in this instance, we all think he should dirt and I really believe. If you had seen my emails to the owners back before he ever made his first thought, I’m like, “guys, you know, I think we should really have a Derby horse here, he’s that kind of horse.” So when I ran him first time out on the dirt and he got beat X amount of lengths, you know, we were—I didn’t sleep well that night. It was just a real down situation for me; but we forgave it, we’ve made our excuse and the rest has been a good thing. So I think, you know, I think Frank Martin might not have followed this path, but I’m old school in the way that I approach the training of a horse, but I know that you have to be new school in order to survive in this industry in this day and age.
Van Cushny: All right, I see the fractions of the Palm Beach were progressively faster. Do you see him running the same way on Saturday? And a related is, how do you see the Blue Grass shaping up in terms of pace, and who are you most concerned about?
Gary Contessa: Well, honestly, I see the race shaping up—I don’t see a lot of speed. I don’t see it being a huge speed race, so I really envision—and I was talking it over with a couple—the clockers, as a matter of fact, today at Keeneland. We both—neither one of us see a whole lot of speed in there and I see it setting up perfectly. I see us being in that second tier, but you know, you got to have everything go right in a 14 horse field when that gate opens to be able to be laying second, third or fourth, but that’s where I’d like to be. I’d like to be sitting right behind the leaders like I did in pretty much all of his races. If they want to give me the lead, he could definitely run on the lead if they hand it to me and they want to hand me small (ph) fractions and they want me to be on the lead. But I would like to run the same kind of race because this horse, from whatever position he is, he’s a really powerful closer. He keeps his stride right down to the wire, he’s never short on stride, and like I said earlier, Edgar Prado, I don’t think he’s ever hit it more than once or twice ever in a race, and Edgar is the first one to say to me, “you know, we haven’t seen the bottom of this horse.” So I see the race setting up the same way.
You know Mark Cassidy is a very, very good friend of mine, and he tells me he loves the way his horse is training and I really admire Mark as a trainer and I would have to say his horse is going be the horse that I fear the most, but I hope they all fear my horse because my horse is really training well.
Eric Wing: Gary, one risk you and the other 13 trainers all take when you point to the Blue Grass, at least this year, is drawing that, you know, post 13, post 14 just because the field is so big. Now, you mentioned that Rydilluc has that tactical speed that kind of tends to put him in a nice position, but despite that, how fearful are you of getting, like, one of those real outside draws?
Gary Contessa: No fear and I would welcome it. I was talking to somebody earlier today and they said, “if you had to pick a post, what would you pick?” and I said, “nine out.” My lucky number is 13 and if I got post 13, I’d just feel it was karma. I think from out there, if a horse is acting up in the gate, you’re not going to be sitting in that gate for five minutes, you’re going to be in and out fairly quickly; and from out there, we saw Mike Smith do it the other day with Billy (inaudible) horse in the Ashland Stakes, she was the 13th, you know, go right to the lead or at least be able to set your eye on what position you want to be in going into that first turn from the outside. It would not bother me at all and if we were picking post position draws, I’d probably pick the nine or the 13 or it wouldn’t—I like it. For this horse, I like it, because he doesn’t have to stand in the gate for a long amount of time and kind of fall asleep in there or get rattled in there, and when they break that gate, you can pick your spot with—you know, by just looking to the left and seeing what’s going on inside of you.
Eric Wing: All right. Well, Gary, in what shapes up is a very exciting race on paper, yours is truly one of the most exciting prospects in the bunch. It’ll be very interesting to see how Rydilluc does on the poly track. We wish you the best of luck, and we really thank you so much for coming on and talking to us about him.
Gary Contessa: Thank you. Thanks for having me, I really appreciate it.
Eric Wing: Our pleasure, thank you. That’s Gary Contessa, trainer of Rydilluc. He comes into the Toyota Blue Grass on three race winning streak. The last one, the Grade III Palm Beach Stakes at Gulfstream on March 3rd, and Gary and jockey, Edgar Prado, will be looking to make it four in a row Saturday in the Toyota Blue Grass, and again, 100 points to first, 40 points to second and if he can do—finish in one of those top two positions, he’ll be looking mighty good for the first Saturday in May.
Okay, it’s ironic that Gary, earlier in the call, mentioned Citrus Kid because our next guest is—owns Citrus Kid and, among the other horses he owns is Falling Sky, who is the Sam F. Davis winner at Tampa, ran a very good third behind Verrazano at Tampa Bay and next stop, Oaklawn for the Arkansas Derby. We’re happy to welcome in now Jim Covello. Jim, it’s Eric Wing in New York. Thanks for being with us today.
Jim Covello: Eric, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Eric Wing: Jim, first of all, you and John Terranova had a choice to make between the Blue Grass and the Arkansas Derby. Other than the fact that your horse had never run on poly track before, how did you wind up choosing Arkansas?
Jim Covello: Yes, it was definitely a tough decision. We spent an awful lot of time going back and forth. You know, I think it ultimately came down to a couple of factors. While there’s a lot of good horses going in both races, you know, at the end of the day, I—you know, there were a couple of horses in the Blue Grass that are a little bit more wildcards, and certainly, you know, I think you were just talking about one. I mean, there’s no saying how good a couple of those horses could be, and again, obviously, we’re going to face some really good horses in Arkansas as well. But at the end of the day, there was just a couple of wildcards in the Blue Grass that we would rather have not tangled with, and then, as you say, you know, the biggest factor was the fact that the horse is training incredibly well on the dirt. You know, we think he’s run well on the dirt, and so, at this point, we didn’t see the need to switch surfaces because we’re pretty confident that he’ll run a good race on Saturday.
Eric Wing: Okay, now your day job, Jim, is that of a semiconductor analyst at Goldman Sachs. I would imagine that involves a lot of studying of past events and trying to project what’s going to happen in the future, so it…
Jim Covello: Exactly.
Eric Wing: It’s probably no surprise that you’re also a very avid handicapper. Are there any aspects of your day job there at Goldman Sachs that have yielded insights to you in terms of handicapping, or vice versa, for that matter?
Jim Covello: Yes, well I’d say the first thing is you get used to being wrong a lot in both—in doing both things. Yes, but seriously, I mean I think the biggest thing is, you know, both as a handicapper and anything related to the stock market is just being willing to go against consensus, I guess. In the form of handicapping horses, it’s being willing to try to beat favorites, which is mostly what we’re trying to do when we’re handicapping. And then, you know, in the form of stocks, it’s finding where you have out of consensus views and having that be the case. You’re never going t