To listen to the teleconference in its entirety, click here.
Jim Mulvihill: We’re now less than five weeks away from the Kentucky Derby and this is about as closely bunched a group of three year olds as we’ve seen to start the month of April. We saw some impressive performances in last weekend’s first round of 170 point Championship Series races, but the public is still waiting for a clear cut Derby favorite to emerge. Maybe we’ll find that horse this weekend in Saturday’s two major prep races; those are the Wood Memorial at Aqueduct, and the Santa Anita Derby at Santa Anita Park. Both of those races are Grade 1 events with $1 million purses at one and one eighth miles. The Wood and the Santa Anita Derby will be featured on the NBC Sports Network’s live “Road to the Kentucky Derby” broadcast Saturday from 5:30 to 7:30 p.m. Eastern. The Horse Racing Radio Network offers live coverage of those same two races from 5 to 7:30 p.m. on Sirius XM and the HRR and affiliates, or streaming online at horseracingradio.net.
Also of interest this Saturday, keep in mind the Calder Derby is not a Road to the Kentucky Derby points race, but it will include the Tampa Bay Derby winner, Ring Weekend, trained by Graham Motion, who already has enough points for the Derby and will use that race as a softer final prep.
Also remember, this Saturday is the last big day of preps on the Road to the Kentucky Oaks. We’ve got four major 170 point stakes; the Gazelle at Aqueduct, the Santa Anita Oaks, the Fantasy at Oaklawn and the Ashland on the opening weekend at Keeneland. Following those races, the only remaining points for the Kentucky Oaks will be available in the April 13 Beaumont at Keeneland.
Now later in this call we’ll talk to Steve Coburn. He’s the co-owner of Santa Anita Derby favorite, California Chrome, and hopefully Ron Sanchez, who owns Wood contender, Social Inclusion.
First we’ve got Gary Contessa. He’s trainer of Wood contender, Uncle Sigh. Contessa is a native of Long Island. He found his way to the racetrack in the 1970s, and cut his teeth as an assistant to Hall of Fame trainer, Frank Martin, before going out on his own in 1985. Since then he’s amassed more than 2,000 wins and has developed a reputation for his eye with young horses. Most famously, Contessa picked out Peace Rules for $35,000 and trained him to his first win at Saratoga before selling him for 10 times that amount. Contessa also is President of the Exceller Fund responsible for the care of about 100 retired race horses.
Gary Contessa, you’re on with Jim Mulvihill. Welcome to the call.
Gary Contessa: Hey, Jim. Glad to be on. Thank you.
Jim Mulvihill: We’re glad you’re here with us. Uncle Sigh worked this morning at Aqueduct, so let’s start right there; a half in 47.3. Just give us a report on how that went.
Gary Contessa: Well, yesterday morning at this time I would’ve never thought we were going to be working him today, but today was the day I wanted to work him, and Aqueduct was the place I wanted to work him. We had a ton of rain. All of a sudden yesterday afternoon, 1, 2 o’clock the sun came out, the wind picked up, everything went our way. This morning on my way in about 4 o’clock in the morning I stopped at Aqueduct, checked the track over there; I was pleased with it. Came back to Belmont. Belmont was still very heavy and very muddy, so I made the decision about 5 o’clock this morning to take him to Aqueduct, and he had a great work. The track was fantastic. Again, Glen Kozak, the track Super, ran the tractors extra for me; made the track I mean absolutely pristine, and he went out there and worked like he has been all year. He worked a half in 47.3. The interesting part is he went the first quarter in 25 flat, and he came home in 22.3; I mean just effortlessly. Nick Santagata was on him. He iced it again; he did a great job for me, and the horse came back none the worse for wear.
Jim Mulvihill: All right, well that sounds like exactly what you would want. Let’s talk about his last couple races. He had a few very serious throw downs with Samraat, and, you know, he just missed in each of those. But I think it’s worth noting that in the Gotham he was between horses the whole length of the stretch, and in the Withers he was on the inside. Do you think those races could’ve turned out differently if maybe he was the one on the outside?
Gary Contessa: No doubt. I don’t even know if it’s necessarily on the outside. You know, in the Withers Samraat was low in speed, and we felt we were as good as Samraat, so we drew inside of him so we—my decision was to go to the lead. One of the most interesting things, if you ever watch the head-on of the Withers it’s quite an interesting study in horses. The entire time from the half mile pull all the way around the turn heading for home, Pablo Morales is constantly tapping him with the stick, constantly—driving me crazy as a trainer—constantly tapping him with the stick, and turns out, you know, we’re on the lead and Uncle Sigh is waiting for Samraat; just waiting for him, waiting for him.
Now, remember, he came out of a New York-bred maiden special and I threw him into the fire. He went into the Withers and then the Gotham, so he’s a very inexperienced horse. So we learned a lesson then that really he doesn’t want to be on the lead. Come back in the Gotham with Nakatani, and we had a beautiful stalking trip. Couldn’t complain about anything, except when we came up to engage In Trouble, we suddenly became sandwiched. Jose Ortiz rode Samraat perfectly; put us in tight. If you watch the head-on, from the top of the stretch to the wire, Nakatani cannot whip Uncle Sigh, because there’s no room. His left boot is touching In Trouble, his right boot is touching Samraat, and it was—and my horse just ran on on pure guts in the middle. So I absolutely believe if he could’ve gone to the whip or he had a little more opportunity to shuffle around a little bit, we could’ve turned the tables on him. So we’ve had two very good stake races, but two troubled trips both—in both stake races.
Jim Mulvihill: Well, you mentioned his guts, and that’s something I want to talk about, because, you know, in both those races despite those tight quarters he’s been game all the way to the wire, and I think it’s one of the reasons this horse has so many fans coming into the Wood. Just talk about his gameness, and, you know, the heart that he’s shown in both of these stakes efforts.
Gary Contessa: You know, like any athlete, you can’t measure determination in a horse. You can buy the best looking horse who works the fastest time, but you can’t measure determination. As I’ve learned in the sports field my whole life, I would rather fight a big, good looking opponent who is not as determined than, you know, your little scrapper who just is determined to fight you to the death. That’s what Uncle Sigh is. He’s got that instinct about fighting and fighting and not wanting to lose, and he’s really a neat horse because of that. I have a colt in this barn that has beaten Uncle Sigh in the morning every time. I mean they were workmates for the first part of their time together for the first two months, and that horse is still amazing. You can’t measure determination, and Uncle Sigh, he just has the heart of a racehorse and he’s a very, very determined athlete.
Jim Mulvihill: Well, he’s raced close to the pace in all of these, and you’ve said that you’ve found that he probably doesn’t want to be on the lead. Then you were describing this work today where he relaxes early and finishes strong. Does that suggest that tomorrow he—or on Saturday there is a lot of speed in that race, we could see him more mid-pack and sitting off the pace a little more than we’ve seen before?
Gary Contessa: I would love to see that. I’m not going to tell Nakatani what to do. He’s done it before and he knows the horse now, which I think is an advantage to him, but I would love to see that. I don’t think this horse has to be anywhere. When I ran him three quarters in his maiden race he was more mid-pack early and he didn’t engage until late in that race, and I don’t think there’d be any problem running him like that. So the key is somebody has to hook Social Inclusion. He’s had two front-running victories. I believe that horse has to be challenged or he’s going to be really tough to beat. It may turn out to be that he’s tough to beat no matter what, but I would like to see him get challenged. And it does—I agree with you that it does appear to be speed in here. I would be just as happy to be laying back third, fourth, fifth as I would be, you know, chasing Social Inclusion. I’d rather be working out a stalking trip if I can.
Danny Brewer: Uncle Sigh, does he have the versatility that you would like him to have right now? Based on what you and Jim were talking about, it sounds like you think he can be pretty versatile.
Gary Contessa: That horse has one of the greatest minds of any horse I’ve ever trained. I believe he could—if the situation arose, he would be as lethal coming from dead last as he would be chasing the pace. I believe he is pushbutton, and Nakatani—and the only instructions I’m going to give Nakatani is you can do anything you want with this horse. You know, and it takes a good-minded horse. A lot of times you have frontrunners because they’re that kind of—they have that kind of mind. They have a front-running mind; they’ve got to be upfront. You have closers that just don’t have the mindset to have speed. I believe this horse would do anything you want him to do.
Danny Brewer: Do you think that maybe he learned something from his two close defeats, because he faced adversity in both of those? Do you think he learned anything?
Gary Contessa: Absolutely. I think he has learned a lot. Every day he’s developed, and it’s been very hard to develop a horse this winter in New York, because we have had no set training patterns. The weather has really stuck it to us this winter. But this horse, despite all the adversity, has really continued to develop. I think he has learned something from every experience, and I just think he’s becoming the consummate racehorse. I think he’s just getting better and better, not—he hasn’t hit his plateau at all. I think you’re going to see a lot more from this horse as we go on in the year.
Danny Brewer: Okay, New York guy, he’s a New York horse, match made in heaven bound for a Kentucky Derby we think?
Gary Contessa: I hope so. I’m not looking beyond Saturday. You know, it seems to me this business loves to kick you when you’re down and kick sand in your face as most trainers will tell you. I’m just looking at Saturday. I mean there’s not a trainer in America that doesn’t want to go to the Kentucky Derby, so I think that sums it up, but right now, we have a major, major hurdle and that is the Wood Memorial.
Danny Brewer: He’s always run at Aqueduct. Is that a real positive for him coming into this race?
Gary Contessa: Well, it’s a home field advantage. I took him to Aqueduct today and worked him over the track. He’s comfortable there. He doesn’t have to van up from Florida like Social Inclusion. He doesn’t have to fly up from Florida like Harpoon and Samraat. I mean he just has to go 10 minutes from Belmont to Aqueduct. So I think there’s some sort of advantage there. You know, how much of an advantage I don’t know, because, boy, those guys coming out of Florida definitely had a weather advantage, that’s for sure.
Art Wilson: Gary, even though it’s only been two races, these two New York-breds, Samraat and Uncle Sigh, they are kind of starting to develop a little bit of a rivalry. Can you just touch on what you think that means to the sport; and what kind of a boost it could give the sport?
Gary Contessa: I think every rivalry—I think anything that captures the attention of the general public in sports in general is a great thing. I think this is a great rivalry for New Yorkers. I mean it’s a friendly rivalry. Rick Violette and I are friendly. The horses, it’s been a great rivalry. I mean I just love it. I think it’s great. I t ink you’re actually—if you come over to Aqueduct—if you saw the “Rocky”—if you go back to the “Rocky”, the first fight of “Rocky” they raised those banners; one is of Rocky and one is of Apollo Creed side by side. They’ve done that at Aqueduct. They have an Uncle Sigh banner on one side and Samraat on the other, so they’re promoting the rivalry which I love to see. And it’s beautiful. I mean it’s a huge 20 by 20 banner for each horse, and they’re kind of looking at each other, and it’s fantastic. I think it’s very good for the public and it’s very good for the sport.
Art Wilson: Overall in the race, this is a top notch field. I mean you’ve got four or five top colts in there and a horse that’s coming from California like Kristo is really flying under the radar. What do you think of the field overall?
Gary Contessa: I think the field is the best field we’ve assembled in the three year old preps. But I mean arguably somebody could say, no it’s not, but I think it’s the best prep field yet, and I truly believe that your Kentucky Derby favorite could come out of this field on Saturday.
Debbie Arrington: Uncle Sigh has got such a memorable name, but is he named after a particular person? What’s with the story on his name?
Gary Contessa: Yes, he is. Now, I am guilty of not being a follower of the show, but there’s a show on TV called “Duck Dynasty”, which is like very, very popular, and one of the most popular—I don’t know if he’s beloved or he’s hated—characters on the show is Uncle Si, and he’s named for Uncle Sigh. Chip McEwen is a big fan of the show, and they named him after that guy.
Debbie Arrington: What is Uncle Sigh the horse like around the barn?
Gary Contessa: Uncle Sigh the horse is the coolest dude; probably one of the cooler horses that I’ve ever trained in my life. Like last year at this time we were talking about Rydilluc. Rydilluc would go to the paddock and he would put on quite a show. People came just to see his show. He was difficult, rearing up, carrying on; very stallionesque. This guy, I said it and it probably sums it up the best, I believe somebody could sit on his back and shoot a gun and he wouldn’t flinch. He’s Cool Hand Luke. I mean he’s a very cool dude. Nothing bothers him, never sweats; just the polar opposite of Rydilluc. He’s a very cool, calm, collected horse, and just a wonderful horse to train.
Debbie Arrington: Have you been paying attention to the other preps around the country, and who do you have an eye on?
Gary Contessa: Well, indeed I have. The Florida Derby I think Constitution was awesome the other day, and he’s very lightly raced, and I really liked him coming into that race. Cairo Prince we know he’s got a huge race in him. Why he didn’t show it the other day we’re not certain, but he could show up and run a huge race at any time. I’ve been, you know, I’ve been very impressed by a bunch of these horses. Obviously, just like the rest of the world, I’ve been blown away by Social Inclusion and now I’m going to have to run against him. There’s a horse that could be any kind of horse. His numbers suggest that he could be any kind of horse, but he’s extremely untested. So I look forward to Saturday. I truly believe and, you know what, this business proves me wrong every single day, but personally, I truly believe your Derby favorite and perhaps your Derby winner could come out of this race on Saturday; one of these two races on Saturday.
Tim Wilkin: I just wanted to ask you, you are not convinced that Samraat is better than you, right?
Gary Contessa: No, I am not.
Tim Wilkin: Can you expand on that?
Gary Contessa: He has beaten me. He beat me in the Withers on experience, and I think he beat me in the Gotham on trip, but I am not ready to say I don’t think he’s a great horse. I think Samraat is a wonderful horse trained by a great guy and owned by a great guy, but I truly believe with a different trip, I could’ve won both those races, since you asked me.
Tim Wilkin: So do you think they’re even?
Gary Contessa: I do. I think they’re even. But I also believe we haven’t seen the best of Uncle Sigh. I don’t know if we’ve seen the best of Samraat or not. I think we’re as good as Samraat, but I think there’s more to Uncle Sigh. I think he’s a very inexperienced horse. I said once that I feel like I took him out of the frying pan and threw him into the fire after a New York-bred maiden win. You know, it’s not the norm to see a horse win a New York-bred maiden race then go to the Withers, then go to the Gotham, and be talking about being one of the favorites in the Wood. As far as learning experience, I kind of went from kindergarten to fifth grade to high school to college. I didn’t give him a few years in each place. So I just feel like my horse is just getting better and better, so I look forward to seeing what his best is.
Tim Wilkin: What is your impression of Samraat?
Gary Contessa: I think he’s a really good horse. Man, he’s got the heart of a racehorse. He’s determined. You know what he’s shown? He has shown that he can do it from on the pace or off the pace. I think he’s a really good horse, and I look forward to have no excuses in a race against him and see who wins. I really do. But what a great horse. I just admire him so much. You don’t see too many horses like him that just keep winning.
Tom Jicha: Gary, I’d like to get back to something you said a few minutes ago about the other horses being in Florida and you having Uncle Sigh there. Samraat came back and forth after all his races. How much of an advantage do you think that was? And you had horses down here. Why did you never consider doing the same with Uncle Sigh?
Gary Contessa: Well, I never thought that we were going to keep getting bombarded by the weather. Usually what happens in New York is you get one bad storm in January; you lose a day or two of training. You get one bad storm in February. So when I was thinking about taking him to Florida, I really had never had any other plans but to take the New York route, which was going to be Withers, Gotham, Wood. So I wanted him in my main stable, which is in New York, and I wanted him to be training in New York. If I had a time machine and I had it to do over again, I would’ve shipped him to Florida on December 1st, but only because of the weather.
When you’re in Florida, you have to fly back here. You have to make sure you have a flight, everything has to go well. Those guys did a very smart thing. I had never seen anybody do that before before this year. I think Rick Violette should be applauded for what he did with this horse, because with all the horses that ran in Triple Crown races in all the years that I can remember, this is the first time I saw a guy do what Rick Violette did. I didn’t want to go down to Florida for the Florida Derby. Really, Withers, Gotham, Wood is what worked for me. I didn’t think I was going to miss this much training. I didn’t think I was going to have such a miserable winter. Thirty five years I’ve been in New York in the winter. I have never seen this many storms, this much missed training, and this bad weather. It’s been terrible. So it was a judgment call that didn’t quite work out, but in his defense, Uncle Sigh handled it incredibly well.
Tom Pedulla: Sort of on the distance issue, any sense of how that might play out between, say, Uncle Sigh, Samraat, Social Inclusion?
Gary Contessa: Well, Social Inclusion is the wild card. He ran so well the other day, he was drawing off—I mean he looked so good going long the other day, but he had a first half that was moderate if you look at the races that day. Any time you’re a race horse and you get a first half that’s moderate, it becomes a 5 furlong race. So he obviously can handle the distance. I saw him on the track this morning and he looked great. He’s a really big, good looking horse; big rangy horse. I don’t think he has any distance limitations. My opinion of Uncle Sigh is that he too doesn’t have any distance limitations, and I think he proved that by being able to go from a three quarter race to a distance race to the Gotham, and he’s never, you know, with the exception of the Withers, and I’m not sure he was backing up or he just ran out of steam being on the lead, I mean he’s never really shown quit towards the end of a race. So he gives me the impression that a mile and an eighth, a mile and a quarter would be no problem. And, Samraat, that boy does nothing wrong. I mean he acts like whether you’re running 6 furlongs or a mile and a half he’s going to show up. I don’t see any distance limitations for my horse, but, of course, horses have been known to prove trainers wrong on that front, too. You really learn by doing in this business.
Jim Mulvihill: Gary, you’ve already got 24 points, and in the limited history that we have to go by that should be enough to get in the Derby, but you put a strong work into your horse this morning and you clearly want to win this race. Is there—was there any temptation to maybe back off knowing that the bigger goal is still five weeks away?
Gary Contessa: I don’t think 24 points is a gimme anymore. We have—24 points puts him and Cairo Prince in a tie in 17th place on the points list. We still run the Wood Memorial this weekend. The first two finishers are going to be ahead of you. The Santa Anita Derby, the first two finishers are going to be ahead of you. The Blue Grass is coming up; the first two finishers are going to be ahead of you. Arkansas Derby, the same thing. So in this day and age, I don’t think 24 points is enough. Last year I could’ve got in with 10 points, and I think I—ultimately at the very end, a horse got in with four points. But I don’t see—I don’t necessarily see that happening right now. It looks like everybody is getting the points and standing pat, so that you’re not going to see horses running again and getting injured and dropping out. You’re going to see some normal day-to-day injuries and horses dropping out, but right now it seems like everybody’s standing pat, and I’m not positive 24 points is going to get it. But I’m not necessarily running in the Wood just for the points. This horse is training really well, and he deserves a shot in the Wood, and the Derby determination will be made after the Wood. I mean this is a million dollar race, and this is a very, very good Grade 1 for us.
Jim Mulvihill: Excellent. Well, it sounds like you’re in a great spot, Gary, and we wish you luck on Saturday, and appreciate you being with us today.
Gary Contessa: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.
Jim Mulvihill: Gary Contessa, he’s got Uncle Sigh in the Wood on Saturday.
Now we’re going to move onto our second guest, and that is Steve Coburn, the co-owner of California Chrome, who is the likely favorite for Saturday’s Santa Anita Derby. Coburn will turn 61 on Kentucky Derby day of all days; that’s May 3rd. He’s a resident of Topaz Lake, Nevada near Reno, and he works for a company that makes the magnetic strips on the back of credit cards and ID cards. Coburn co-owns California Chrome with Perry Martin. Those two were long-time partners in the Blinkers On Syndicate before purchasing Love the Chase as a Broodmare prospect, and she was the one who produced California Chrome, a son of Lucky Pulpit. California Chrome is five for nine lifetime, with four stakes wins; three against fellow Cal-breds and then the jaw-dropping seven and a quarter length win in the Grade 2 San Filipe last month.
Steve, thanks for being with us. You’re on with Jim Mulvihill in New York.
Steve Coburn: Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Jim Mulvihill: Oh, it’s our pleasure. I’m sure you had high hopes going into the San Filipe, but you couldn’t have expected a performance like that. Take us through that race and tell us what you were thinking watching all of that unfold.
Steve Coburn: Well, watching it unfold, it’s kind of scary when he broke like a shot with three lengths on everybody within a sixteenth pole and then he went to the front and stayed there. He normally comes from just off of the pace, so this was kind of a shocker to everybody. Then on the back stretch my wife kept saying he’s going to fast, he’s going too fast. I told her to look at his ears. He was a very happy horse out for a Sunday stroll on a Saturday afternoon. When he broke to come for home, I knew he was going to win by a few, but I didn’t think he was going to win by seven and a quarter. When this colt breaks and runs, he’s just like he’s pushbutton. He changes his lead so fast, unless you’re looking for it, you’ll never see it. Then he’s got a beautiful long stride on him. He’s very well balanced. It was a shocker, but I knew he had it in him; he just needed to show it. Since we’ve changed jockeys to Victor Espinoza, those two have connected quite well Victor talks to him when he rides him and the horse listens. It was a race that we had to get some points because we’ve been pointing this horse to Kentucky since the day he hit the ground. So we’re kind of excited about the Santa Anita Derby also.
Jim Mulvihill: You mentioned that break in the San Filipe, and now I’m remembering. I mean he got out of there as fast as any horse I’ve seen. Is that—was that something that Victor was trying to do or the horse just happened to surge when the gate sprung?
Steve Coburn: Well, this colt, believe it or not, he’s very smart; he’s very intelligent horse. He knows that when they moved him from his regular stall, which is now at Los Alamitos, to a different track, he knows it’s game time. He gets his job and he loves his job, and he shot out of there quicker than I’ve ever seen him shoot out before. So he was ready to go and he was ready to roll, and I believe this Saturday he’s going to be ready to