August 4, 2020

Travers Stakes/Ellis Park Derby preview

Guests

  • Bob Baffert, trainer, Uncle Chuck (Travers), Gamine (Test)
  • Jack Knowlton, Sackatoga Stable, owner Tiz the Law (Travers)
  • Tom Drury, trainer, Art Collector (Ellis Park Derby)

Full transcript (note: transcript has not been edited)

P R E S E N T A T I O N

Operator:

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the N T R A Road to the Triple Crown conference call. Today’s conference is being recorded. At this time, all participants are currently in listen only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session at which time instructions for asking questions will be provided. For operator assistance during the call, please press star zero. I would now like to turn the meeting over to Alicia Hughes, please go ahead.

Alicia Hughes:

Thank you, Ryan. And welcome everyone to this week’s NTRA road to the triple crown teleconference. This week will you will be previewing two races that offer qualifying points toward the, towards the Derby and the grade one travers state, which is the centerpiece of the historic heritogamy[?], as well as the Ellis Park Derby, which takes place at the track affectionately known as the pea patch this Sunday. Weighted to headline this year’s Travers will be Belmont stakes winner Tiz The Law who is also currently the number one ranked tourist on the NTRA top three, top three-year-old pole. And we will be joined later on by Jack Knowlton, the operating manager of owner Saratoga stable. We are also said to be joined later on by trainer Tom Drury[?], who will send out Bluegrass Stakes winner, Art Collector in the Ellis Park Derby.

First up though, we are once again, lucky to be joined by hall of fame trainer, Bob Baffert[?], who is coming off just a huge weekend, where he sent out Improbable to win the Whitney, Thousand Words to take the Shared Belief Stakes and Fighting Bad to win the, the Cohmad L Hirsch. Bob is set to send out Los Alamitos Derby winner, Uncle Chuck in this year’s Travers, as he seeks to capture the Midsummer Derby for the fourth time in his storied career. In addition to having Uncle Chuck in the Travers Bob is also said to have a super impressive acorn winner Gamine in the grade one, test stakes. Bob, thank you again for joining us today.

Bob Baffert:

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Alicia Hughes:

I said first and foremost, obviously we’ll start off with Uncle Chuck. He’s only had those two career starts, but he really dominated in both of his outings. And he was obviously flattered this past week of 1000 words. Who’ll be defeated out at Loss Isle[?], you know, came back and won the shared belief. What was it with Uncle Chuck that, that maybe kept him from getting an earlier start to, to his career and what is about him that is really most impressed you so far as he goes about just trying to figure this whole game out?

Bob Baffert:

No, what when we bought him, he was a big tall lanky horse. Didn’t look like your typical uncle Mo. And so, we, when we sent him to the farm, I just told Barry[?] Eisman who breaks most, most of my horses for me. And I just told take your time with him. Don’t get in a rush. I’m not going to run them as a two-year-old. He’s a big tall lanky horse. And there is good about that and just send him to me when he’s ready and that’s what he does. He went as soon as he says, okay, he’s ready to come. And he sends them to us. And so that’s where we took our time with him. And I knew he was going to be an early type. I mean, he probably could have been, but you know, he’s a big, tall framed horse. We just let him grow into himself. So, the same thing as what happened with Hurricane.

Alicia Hughes:

Yeah. And again, speaking of horses, so again, you took your time with Gamine and she just blew everybody away with a performance for the ages there in the acorn stakes, where she won by 18- and three-quarter lanes. She’s cutting back at seven furlongs this weekend. What was it that ultimately went into this vision to go to, to the test day, as opposed to maybe looking at a spot like the you know, the coaching club Americans or oats, or even the Alabama that’s coming up?

Bob Baffert:

Well, I was thinking the coaching club was coming up a little bit quick on her and I didn’t want to put her back on a plane right away and run her [inaudible] to Saratoga. So, you know, she’s run well that winter and I figured maybe the test and the test, you know, it’s a very important race and so we could run her there and then I’ve been stretched her out for the Kentucky owes, cause we’ve already sent her long if I hadn’t sent her long before. I probably would have maybe done that, but we ran her at Oaklawn, and she was going to turn there so we know she can handle that part. So, it’s such a weird year, you know, it’s sort of hard to, you know, we’ve tried to map things out, but after that race that she ran in New York, I mean, she was just unbelievable that day. And but she’s come back and trained well. And you know, when they run that hard and fast, you always worry like, well, I wonder if, you know, maybe I hope she didn’t you know, pop out or something, but she actually looks, she looks terrific. She looks better now going into this race. So, I just hope, you know, she should run really well. So, it’s just, you know, they, they still have to do that.

Alicia Hughes:

Sounds good. And I liked how you say that it’s been a weird year, that that’s a pretty kind of way of putting it with everything that we’ve been through. But with that Bob, like I said, I know we’ve got a lot of media onto on today. So, with that, I will throw it back to our operator and we can check in with the media to see if they have any questions for you.

Operator:

Thank you. If you’d like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star one on your telephone keypad. If you’re using a speaker phone, please make sure your mute function is turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment. Again, for any questions, please press star one now. We will pause briefly for any questions. First question, and that is from Art Wilson with Southern California newspaper group. Please go ahead with your question.

Art Wilson:

Hey, Bob, you talked about it being a weird year. And any of the horses, any of these three year olds that they’re winning any of these triple crown races, some people might be apt to poo-pooed cause it’s been such a weird year, but can you make the argument that if a horse happened to win the triple crown this year, that it might be even a more impressive feat?

Bob Baffert:

I, you know what, it’s hard to say until we get all these races run. I mean, it’s just I don’t even think about that right now. We, I just, we just go week by week because this world changes every day. So right now, we’re just concentrating on what is happening now this week. I really don’t give a lot of thought.

Art Wilson:

With your with your other triple crown winners, has this been with all your three-year-olds? Has this been the most challenging year of your career?

Bob Baffert:

But I think that it’s been frustrating because we are, we had of those horses get, they got injured and that really was more frustrating than challenging. And so now we have a different group here where a horse like Uncle Chuck, he was, you know, he would never run in the Derby, now he’s got a chance, you know, if he runs well, he’s got to run well in the Travers. So, we’re, you know, he’s taken a big step up there and see if he can run with a horse, like Tiz The Law and those other horses in there, see how he fits in and see how he handles his shipping. You know, the shipping. That that’s one thing that’s very important about the shipping art is that you don’t know how they’re going to handle the shipping, you know, Thousand Words it’s shipped from old pond that sort of disastrous probably wasn’t doing as well as he as now. But, you know, you learned from that Authentic, he handled his ship to, so I don’t have to worry about him, but you know, we’re, we’re trying to, you know, that’s what the preps are all about. Not only are you trying to get the points and whatever, but you’re trying to figure out your horse. What’s what, what is he like, what he doesn’t like. And so that’s the challenging part of it.

Art Wilson:

Right. And my last question real quick, you mentioned to me like six weeks ago that if you were going to run a filly in the Derby, that Gamine has the kind of ingredients of a filly that you would want to look for, if you had had more time with her, could you have envisioned running her in the Derby?

Bob Baffert:

Yeah, I might’ve thought about it, Art, you know, but she’s, we know she’s so talented and the temptation is always there, but I think after the test we’ll know more about her, see how she handles that, but I don’t want to get ahead of myself. I like this one race at the time, so it’s one of those things where she probably could fit it. But I just don’t, I really didn’t give it a lot of thought yet.

Art Wilson:

Right. Good luck Saturday, Bob.

Bob Baffert:

Thank you.

Operator:

Thank you. And we’ll move on to our next question. And that is from Byron King with blood horse. Please go ahead with your question.

Byron King:

Hi, Bob. I wanted to follow up with you. I was listening in and on the, the Churchill virtual town hall they had yesterday. And it got me thinking about Kentucky Derby riders. And I wanted to follow up with your Derby prospects and where things stand with your riders. Obviously, Uncle Chuck still has to run Saturday and the Travers, but I was curious about Authentic, for example, if you’ve gotten you know, what Mike Smith might do. I know he rode him last time, but he also rides Honor AP and then also Thousand Words, if you could just update us on there, you know, the jockey situation. And for that matter, if you think Churchill sticks to this deadline of August 24th, if that may change the picture for riders and the Kentucky Derby?

Bob Baffert:

It was pretty interesting. I think it caught a lot of people off guard yesterday. I’m glad I was on that call because it’s, you know, the thing is about it is that we’re all under a lot of pressure. And I mean the word protocol just, we must use it 50 times a day, but I think we’re all pretty educated and how to stay safe and what we need to do the right things. And I just thought bringing those jockeys in 10 days before would be more, it it’s like playing with fire. I think I’d rather have just come in here at the last minute. Don’t give them a chance to even get exposed to something. And I, I hate that, you know, night before day before and your jockey, all of a sudden, he got exposed somehow. And then you don’t have a rider, you know, I don’t know what the economy’s going to look like, you know, you don’t know who’s going to show up. I think California, there’s only a couple of riders here who will probably ride The Derby and mainly it would probably affect like the New York riders more so than anything it seems to me that rule would affect them. So, I don’t know. I really haven’t, we haven’t really, nothing’s really firmed up my rider situation. Nothing has been firmed up yet on any of them.

Byron King:

And then secondly, I wanted to, this is slightly changing the topic, but I wanted to follow up with you on your [inaudible]. You had a debut winner of Freedom Fighter on the first and I see that Spielberg entered this weekend. If you can tell us a little bit about Spielberg. And then for that matter, your other two-year olds this early in the game?

Bob Baffert:

Spielberg, he’s a beautifully bred horse. He was pretty pricey, but you know, everything he’s done. I like, I think he’s one of those horses that when we saw him, we just all had to have him. And that’s why he was so expensive, but, you know, he’s, he looks like a horse. He hasn’t yet speed, but yet it looks like, you know, distance, you know, the further it’s going to be better for him. And he’s trained really well. So, he’s, he’s in on Saturday. So, I’m excited about him and, you know, maybe it all goes well, you know, he’d be a, run him[?] in the Demark[?] fraternity and the hopefully get him the Breeders Cup.

Byron King:

Very good. Thank you, Bob.

Operator:

Thank you. And we’ll move on to our next question. And that is from David Grening with daily racing form. Please go ahead with your question.

David Grening:

Hey, Bob the bottom side of Uncle Chuck’s pedigree really indicates one turn of sprints. What is it about him that has you confident to go two turns to start? [inaudible]

Bob Baffert:

You’re breaking up there. Pretty good.

David Grening:

Either the pedigree suggests yeah, the pedigree suggests the one, you know, that the it’s more of a sprint oriented pedigree on the bottom side, but what is it about him that has, you know, confident to have gotten two turns from the start? And what do you feel about, about a quarter?

Bob Baffert:

You know, that’s one of the reasons I bought him David is because when I saw him, I see his uncle Mo and he’s, it’s all speed. The mare was a really fast mare, but if you look at him, he just doesn’t look at you. You know, it’s just like Aggregate when you, you know, he was my Unbridled Song and he didn’t, he looked totally different also, you know, so he’s got this body of a two turn horse and I really didn’t want to sprint him. Because I was afraid, he’d be a little bit, I didn’t want him to get the rank. You know, he, he, he would have one going short, but that I thought going two turns, I think I was going to, he was showing me more and more. He’s got this long, huge drive and he’s quick. And I thought if I ran in two turns that would give them the catch up, he can handle that.

Then he can handle a next big jump. If it’s going to make it to the Derby. It was almost like Justify the sort of the same thing; you know? I would, you know, here I ran them seven days first out and that helped them, you know, then they ran the mile and then I knew, okay, we’ve sort of got, we’ve gotten caught up and you can only do that with a horse that you feel that has a talent, the raw talent that he has. He’s shown me. So that’s why his second start I wasn’t worried about running in the low sell Derby and now he’s running mile and a quarter. And I really think with his stride he looks, you know, he just a big, tall lanky, beautiful horse that, you know, covers a lot of ground. And he has desire uncle Mo’s brilliance, you know, where he got from Indian Charlotte had that brilliance, you know? And so that’s what, you know, that’s true this time of year. I mean, if I’m, if I have a horse, you know, for the Travers, I really liked that. Or I think it’s going to be a good spot for them. And I didn’t want to run in here going to Mount on the 16th.

David Grening:

You mentioned the Aggregate earlier, are there any, besides the lightly raced aspect of it is there anything about this horse that remind you of Aggregate either from a personality standpoint or pride or anything like that?

Bob Baffert:

The ground that he covers the, when he moves, he does long jumping covers a lot of ground the smooth handles it well, doesn’t get tired, you know, so, you know, and so yeah, this time of year, you’re hoping that, well, maybe, you know, I lost, you know, when, when I, when I lost the doll and then charlatan, that was just, those are two major blows for it. So, so and the Thousand Words now he started to come back around and says, I’m quite, wasn’t ready for this yet. He’s a heavy horse. He struggled the other day, got really tired. And but Uncle Chuck you know, I’m just hoping that so far, he’s done everything right. He’s still green. You know, he still looks around a lot and I was tempted to put a little blinker on him, but I didn’t want him to lose[?] speed[?]. He might get a little bit rank and I don’t want him to do that. He’s learning. But his last work was probably his most professional work. I mean, he had to work like that for me to put him on the plane and I liked the way he worked, but I, I actually saw Tiz The Law worked that day looked just as impressive. So, it shouldn’t take good range.

David Grening:

Yeah. I was going to ask you about sort of the, the greenest, because it looked like the gate, you know, you kind of broke slow the first time and then the time he was there, then he switched to [inaudible] these things that come with more the maturity from that aspect. And it comes with more racing and more time.

Bob Baffert:

Yeah. I mean, his first race he was standing perfect and he stepped back right when they opened, but then he got him. He he’s quick, he’s really quick on his day[?]. And the second time he broke decent and a size. He could have gone to the lead with him, but I told him, you know what, I think that’s, don’t do that. Why don’t we just keep him, maybe he’ll sit, let’s teach them how to sit let’s this is a good day to school him because I think he’s a really good horse and just sit on and get to know him. And he switches leads because he, a lot of it is he says, when he felt the whip, he switched leads to the left and we saw the whip. So, he’s still, but now he’s going to be running against some serious horses. So, you know, I think his mind will be more on business.

Operator:

Thank you. And we’ll, we’ll take our next question. And that is from Mark Wicker with Orange County register. Please go ahead with your question.

Mark Wicker:

Hi, Bob, you know when you had Tiz The Law and Uncle Chuck, you have the East West thing going and I was wondering from a horseman standpoint is how significant is the East West rivalry in horse racing? And what are the differences between them? Particularly as far as you’re concerned?

Bob Baffert:

I think it’s, I don’t know if it’s a rivalry thing, but I think it’s like, you know, it’s the, you know, the, when you, when we come from here to there, it’s, you know, we’re sort of at a disadvantage because we’re shifting to them. They’re the home team. They don’t have the baby just come out of their stall and run. It can make it a little bit where it can be at a disadvantage. But when you have a race like the Travers or those big races, I, you know, I’ve been successful shipping from California to there and winning.

So, I don’t worry about stuff like that, but I don’t think it’s an East West, I don’t think we really look at it that way. Because at the end of the day they were all born in Kentucky, you know? And so, I don’t think about that.

Mark Wicker:

Yeah. What do you think the, what’s the difference between going from California to there and then as opposed to them coming out here in terms of advantage or disadvantage?

Bob Baffert:

You know, I think it used to be, they always thought it was a temporary ship from East to West, but I’ve never had a, but now they’re winning more by, you know, our horses. We were, they run differently here. I think we run a little bit quicker here in California. I think their speed is more, you know, they’re from gate to wire. It’s a little bit faster here.

I think that’s a difference. It’s like in basketball, fast break, whatever. And so, horses aren’t used to it maybe, but we’re when you go to a track like Saratoga or Belmont, you have those big wide swooping turns. We’re here, it’s tighter, you know, there’s certain horses run much better. Del Mar. Some horses are just unbeatable here at Del Mar. And so, it’s because of the way the track is. But I really think that Uncle Chuck just like Aggregate don’t like those bigger turns of big, long was bigger horses. They liked; they liked those bigger, long sweeping turns. They could really get them moving on.

Mark Wicker:

Thanks. Appreciate it.

Operator:

Thank you. We’ll move onto our next question. And that is from Tim Sullivan with Louisville courier journal. Please go ahead with your question.

Tim Sullivan:

Hey Bob. I don’t know if you saw it, but the Indianapolis 500 has reversed itself and will not allow spectators this year. I’m wondering what your outlook is on along those lines to the Derby. Do you think it will be run with the, with the crowd or is that improbable?

Bob Baffert:

I don’t know. You’d have to ask Churchill downs that question. All I know is that I know as much I know what I read and the only thing I know about Churchill downs is that they they’re going to run. They’re going to so you, you would probably know more than I would.

Tim Sullivan:

You have a sense one way or the other, would you know where things are headed?

Bob Baffert:

I haven’t. I haven’t heard anything. All I know is that they’re going to run, and they told us their protocols and, and we’ll follow them and see what happens.

Operator:

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. We’ll move onto our next question in this from Ed McNamara, who is a freelancer, please go ahead with your question,

Ed McNamara:

Bob, how do you see the pace of the Travers shaping up? Would you rather see Uncle Chuck on the lead or stalking? Because Tiz The Law will be almost certainly coming from behind you?

Bob Baffert:

Oh, I don’t know. You know what I, I think the break is so important. I mean, until they break look at the other day in the Whitney, you know, it was like, you know, things can happen. And so, I, I think the break is so important. I think the post positions are important. I think once they draw the post, you can sort of figure out I really haven’t looked. The only horse. I know is Tiz The Law. And some of those other horses I’m not real familiar with. And so, but I just worry about, you know, my horse getting there make sure that everything goes well. He shifts well, eats well, he feels well. And when the gate comes open, you know, I’ll have sort of a game plan, but I usually leave it up to the jockey. You know, I’ll talk to Louis[?] sides[?] a little bit. He’s, you know, they’ll have an idea of what to do. You know, he’s a young horse and also, plus I can’t give you my, my game plan over the phone here mean, you know, I mean, you know,

Ed McNamara:

Then asking for secret information, I just wanted to know another question. A few months ago, it looked like you had one of the strongest hands in the history of the Derby, then stuff started happening. How confident were you that you could get back into the triple crown with a real chance with good horses?

Bob Baffert:

Well, I mean it’s just things happen, you know, like they’re athletes and they, unfortunately either they get, they get injured and me, we have to just move on. And fortunately, I still have a few left. We’re getting ready. I had the strong group and it was, you know, in the doll, you know, the Dollar Charlatan that was just massive, massive hits right there, you know, but for the Derby, but I think Thousand Words and Authentic, I mean, Authentic, for some reason, he’s a lot of people didn’t realize that he sort of threw the brakes on himself because he just lost interest there. He, you know, he’s a very good horse and I still think he’s one of the top horses and then we’ve got, Uncle Chuck, we just don’t, you know, we’re going to find out how he fits with those horses. We don’t know, you know, maybe, you know, he’s until they turned for home and I just hope he, when he turns her home, it’s he’s right there and he gets to strut his stuff, but you know, we know he’s a good horse. We know he’s been working well. I feel, I feel good about him. I feel that he’ll, he should run well, but he’s got to get away from the gate. He needs a clean break and there’s a lot of luck involved.

Ed McNamara:

Okay. Thank you very much, Bob.

Operator:

Thank you. We’ll move on to our next question. And that is from John Clay with Lexington Herald leader. Please go ahead with your question.

John Clay:

Hi Bob. I was just wondering how much have you seen of Tiz The Law and what are your impressions of him?

Bob Baffert:

No, I’ve been very impressed with him. I think they managed them really well. They picked the right spots with him, they had one hiccup when they went to Churchill downs and that would, you know, he was in a tough spot the whole way around there. And since then, I mean, they’ve kept them out of trouble and that’s the thing, you know, keep these the rider, you know, keep these good horses out of trouble, but I think he’s progressed perfectly. And he’s definitely the, you know, the, the best three-year-old in the country right now and we just want to, we’ll get an idea, you know, I’ll get an idea if I can run with him or not, you know, so it’s going to be going to be exciting at the same time. I’m hoping we’re as good as he is. And so that’s why we’re going over there.

John Clay:

Thanks, Bob.

Operator:

Thank you. We’ll move on to our next question. And that is from Jason Franks with the courier journal. Please go ahead with your question.

Jason Franks:

Hey, Bob, thanks for joining us. I was wondering if you might, could explain you, you mentioned looking at Uncle Chuck and kind of looking at your hand and knowing you, you didn’t want to run him as a two-year-old. I was wondering if you’d sort of explain that philosophy of, of what you look for and, and knowing that a young horse is ready to run versus waiting on a horse like that, is it, is it simply a matter of, of a bigger horse just needing more time to grow into himself? Or is there something else to that?

Bob Baffert:

Yeah, I think he was kind of horsetail and he was he was tall, and I just wanted to take my time with him. I said, I’m not in a rush with him. And so, it’d be like, you know, I didn’t want to, you know, play a freshmen into this with the varsity, just let him, let him grow into himself. And he’s still growing into himself. He’s just starting to; I can see maturity just these last 30 days. I’ve seen a big difference in him, but we knew a few months ago he was a pretty serious horse. And so, you know, I knew I was going to miss the Derby with him and all that. And but luckily that, you know, he didn’t have the Derby, so I supplemented him into the, the Derby. And so, and so this is going to be, you know, if I know the Derby is coming up a little bit quicker, you know, the timing’s not perfect for the Derby, you know, running this week.

I would like to have a little bit more time, but we don’t. So I think Saturday, we’re we’ll know, after the race, we’ll say, you know, okay, maybe he is a Derby or do we wait for the Preakness[?]You know, so we’ll, but I just thought that, you know, I think the Travers is so important. It’s such an important race, prestigious race, and it is the, you know, it’s the summer Derby and it’s, it’s you know, if you can win that race, it’s just, it’s huge. It’s, it’s huge. Just like winning the Whitney is huge, you know? And so, and there’s certain races, you know, the Haskell I just leave my, my clients and I trained for these clients and they, they want to be in these big races, and they want to win these, these big races and be competitive. And I feel we’re going to be very competitive and, and, and hopefully, you know, maybe we’ll just get lucky and, you know, or maybe things won’t go well, but, you know, you don’t know, but the, you know, the horse couldn’t be doing any better. He shipped; he was on his way. I won’t know until later on how he shipped, you know so hopefully you know, they’re going to beat the hurricane in there, the wind and the rain and all that,

Jason Franks:

Real quick, there’s any update on Authentic since the Haskell?

Bob Baffert:

Great. He came back here, and he looks great. It was a very easy race on him, which, which is good, you know, he didn’t have to run really get it out. And so, he’s doing very well, so there’s, he won’t run until the Derby. And so, we’re, he’s here at Del Mar just enjoying himself. And but he looks fantastic. He knows that he wants to, because he’s actually, he’s exactly the part around here.

Jason Franks:

Thank you, Bob. Appreciate it.

Bob Baffert:

Sure.

Operator:

Thank you. And there are no more qu