May 31, 2019
Belmont Stakes Preview
Guests
- Dale Romans, trainer, Everfast (Belmont Stakes), Promises Fulfilled (Met Mile)
- Tom Amoss, trainer, Serengeti Empress (Acorn Stakes)
- Mark Casse, trainer, War of Will (Belmont Stakes)
Full transcript (note: transcript has not been edited)
P R E S E N T A T I O N
Operator:
Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the NTRA Road to the Triple Crown Belmont Stakes Preview Conference Call. At this time, all participants are on a listen only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct the question and answer session. At that time, participants are asked to press star one to register for a question. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Ms. Alicia Hughes. Please go ahead, Ms. Hughes.
Alicia Hughes:
Thank you and welcome everyone to this week’s NTRA teleconference to preview the 151st edition of the Belmont Stakes on 8th June at Belmont Park. The one-and-a-half mile Belmont Stakes is the centerpiece of the three-day Belmont Stakes festival from 6th June to 8th June, which will include 18 stakes races including 8 Grade 1 races on Belmont Stakes day alone. This week’s trio of guests all figure to be major players in next weekend’s blockbuster line-up and our first guest is heading to New York with a couple of very live prospects for next weekend’s stakes. Eclipse Award-winning trainer Dale Romans is bringing Everfast to the final leg of the Triple Crown off a runner-up effort in the Preakness Stakes, and he also has Grade 1 winner Promises Fulfilled set to start in one of the [inaudible] editions of the Met Mile we have seen in recent years. Dale, thank you so much for joining us today.
Dale Romans:
Hi, thanks for having me.
Alicia Hughes:
A pleasure as always to get a chance to pick your brains. Dale, first and foremost, with Everfast, he came into the Preakness Stakes as pretty deep under most people’s radar after finishing off the board in his prior three starts, but he almost completed the Hail Mary pass that day with the way that he closed and he finished. What was it you saw from him leading up to the Preakness that gave you the confidence to go ahead and take a shot with him in that spot?
Dale Romans:
Well, it goes all the way back to the Holy Bull and he showed then that he could compete with good horses. And like I’ve said many times now that once they show it that they can, then don’t give up on them, if they throw a couple of conkers, and he can spring a steady horse [inaudible]. And I felt like the race on Derby Day, seven-eighths wasn’t bad and I thought that would be a good prep to try to stretch him back out and the top of the crop weren’t going to run, so there’s really no downside to it. We’d take a shot with a three-year-old that’s doing well in a big race, that showed you he’s training well, so why not take a chance?
Alicia Hughes:
Absolutely, and although he’s been very effective closing, I went back and watched the Holy Bull race where he ran second and he was able to kind of race right up there in the first flight that day. Given that the Belmont Stakes is a race that favors horses with more tactical speed, would you expect him to be a bit closer to the running, a bit better than he has been?
Dale Romans:
I would say going a mile-and-a-half, any horse can be where they want. They’re going to be going so slowly early on. I’ll leave that up to the jockey. I just felt like in the Preakness, even though he was coming off of a sprint, he’d have a strong finishing kick and it looked like a lot of speed in the race and Joel and I decided that the best chance he had was to let him get in a good gallop [inaudible] and finish fast and it worked out, almost worked out all the way; but I’ll let the jockey figure it out whether [inaudible] there in the Belmont.
A lot of people don’t realize that speed[?] is strong in the Belmont. By the time they get to the eighth pole, they are all tired, it is hard for a horse to kick, so I would think he would be laying a little bit closer.
Alicia Hughes:
[Inaudible] Promises Fulfilled is going in a race right now that could be your race of the year with the Met Mile. I know this is a horse you have always been high on, he always shows up, he’s been right near the top of what one could argue is one of the toughest divisions in racing. How did you assess his run last time out at Churchill Downs especially coming out of the hard race he had in Dubai?
Dale Romans:
I thought he ran well. It was a very tough race. He just [inaudible] for second. Dubai was a good race, after a layoff, he got left in the gate, first time he’d ever been behind horses, he still finished strong, finished fourth, if he had broke he’d have been right there, I don’t really know why he broke so poorly that day, but he did. I felt like the Met Mile is our big goal for the summer and we’ve got a better chance to wheel back than we normally would out of Dubai, and the race was big on Derby Day. So, now you’ve had five more weeks and he’s had two spectacular works one today and one last Friday. Couldn’t be doing better going into the race. This is a tough division, a bunch of good horses, it’s been exciting to be a part of it and to watch it.
Alicia Hughes:
Sounds good, Dale, looks like we have a handful of media on today. So, with that, I will throw it back to our Operator and see if our media has any questions for you today.
Operator:
Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star one on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speaker phone please make sure your mute function is turned off to enable your signal to reach our equipment. Once again, press star one to ask a question. We’ll pause just a moment to allow everyone an opportunity to signal for questions.
And we’ll take our first question. Tim Wilkin with the Albany Times Union.
Tim Wilkin:
Do you think that the Derby buzz has died down yet, from the controversial finish from that first Saturday in May?
Dale Romans:
It’s died down some but it’s something that’s going to be talked about for years. It is never going to completely die down. But it has been four weeks now, but they’ll be talking about it until the end of time.
Tim Wilkin:
Do you think it’s unfair to Bill Mott?
Dale Romans:
Yes, absolutely. I mean I’m sure Bill would have rather won a Derby a different way but the rules are the rules and he got his Derby. A much-deserved Derby.
Tim Wilkin:
How much attention do you think it brought into the game, maybe not the attention that the sport wanted?
Dale Romans:
To me it wasn’t a major negative, it wasn’t like the eight bells issue, it was an issue of what happens in the rules of racing and even though it was controversial, it wasn’t negative. We were on every talk show, it was all over regular media and I don’t see how it could have hurt us.
Tim Wilkin:
One last one, Dale, you said before, when you go in to Preakness, you said why not take a chance, do you think you are taking as big a chance now, or do you think this horse is coming into it as best as he could be and he couldn’t –
Dale Romans:
He’s coming into it as good as he could be. I didn’t see it as big a chance as a lot of the media did but I feel like we are taking a horse that is a live, medal-priced horse and at the Preakness I think we took a live longshot. And I think the betting public deserves a little respect for making him 28 to 1. It’s very rare you see a horse that morning at 50 to 1 go down.
Tim Wilkin:
What do you think he’ll be next Saturday?
Dale Romans:
Oh, I think he’ll be in the teens but not overwhelming.
Tim Wilkin:
Great, thanks, Dale.
Operator:
And we’ll take our next question from Danny Brewer from horseracingscoop.com.
Danny Brewer:
Dale, my man, how are you?
Dale Romans:
I’m good, hillbilly, how do you end up second, I thought you’d be first question?
Danny Brewer:
Well, I tried, I don’t know, I guess I was counting my bottles of whiskey I’ve got here I’m bringing to Louisville with me is what it was, so I guess that’s how I was second this time.
Dale Romans:
You don’t take [inaudible] you keep that Tennessee whiskey down there.
Danny Brewer:
We’re going to do some talking about that now… The move that Everfast displayed in the Preakness, and we know he’s got it, is that something – what do you do to cultivate that, or is it just letting that horse be that horse and getting him comfortable?
Dale Romans:
You don’t try and change much in three weeks, you just try to let him be himself and do his thing, get into a rhythm – [inaudible] back, get into a rhythm and keeping it going.
Danny Brewer:
Is it Joel Rosario who’s going to be on him again?
Dale Romans:
No, it’s going to be Saez. Joel has a commitment. He promised to ride in a straight line.
Danny Brewer:
Go ride him as straight as you can, right?
Dale Romans:
Right, exactly. He’s a good kid.
Danny Brewer:
When we talk about Promises Fulfilled, and you mentioned the break in the Golden Shaheen, have you done anything – because that was very uncharacteristic for him because usually he’s out of the gate like a rocket? So, have you done anything to school him in the gate or anything like that or you just chalk that up as a fluke?
Dale Romans:
You don’t teach him anything new at this stage. He’ll come out of there fast. I think that was just a fluke. They don’t have a fail[?] on the gate over there and maybe that made a difference, you just don’t know with horses.
Danny Brewer:
You have compared him to a nuclear bomb before because he’s got speed and stamina. Are you still seeing – I know he’s a little bit older, he’s a year older now, do you still think that he’s got those bomb-like capabilities?
Dale Romans:
Today’s the best work I’ve ever seen out of him.
Danny Brewer:
That’s a pretty strong statement right there, wouldn’t you agree?
Dale Romans:
It is. We know he was [inaudible] last year he was always young, young in the crop and just catching up and I feel like finally now he’s catching up with everybody and becoming more mature.
Danny Brewer:
Dale, as you know, I appreciate your time, buddy. I wish you the best of luck. I’ll be talking to you, alright?
Dale Romans:
Thanks Danny.
Operator:
And again press star one to ask a question. And we’ll take our next question from Jonathan Lintner with Horseracing Nation.
Jonathan Lintner:
Hi Dale, thanks for taking a few minutes to do this. You mentioned a few times last year when you were trying to decide between the Breeders Cup Dirt Mile and the Sprint that you thought ultimately Promises Fulfilled would be a better horse at a mile, what gives you that inclination and do you still believe that as strongly now as you did back then?
Dale Romans:
I really do because he does have the speed that it takes to be a sprinter but he also has stamina; and a mile race they say is the toughest race on a horse, they run gate to wire and that’s what separates them, and that’s why they say milers become such good stallions. He’s just the type of horse that for me can start fast and keep right on going.
Jonathan Lintner:
Thank you.
Operator:
And we’ll take our next question from Tom Jicha from Horse Race Insider.
Tom Jicha:
19 go into the Derby, only four come back in the Preakness, and none of the most highly regarded horses in Louisville are coming back Saturday. Is this where the game is headed?
Dale Romans:
You’re picking one year. I think you could go back in history and find other years that similar things have happened. And we are coming off two Triple Crown winners and both those horses hit every race, so I just think it’s an anomaly for this year.
Tom Jicha:
Well the Triple Crown winners come back but I don’t want you to train another guy [inaudible] I did – Todd Fletcher does not run in the Preakness unless he’s got the Derby winner, Bassett isn’t sending a horse to the Belmont this year, has it become the case that if you don’t win the Derby, you just cross out the other races?
Dale Romans:
I don’t think so at all. I mean you have a Preakness winner coming back. I think it’s just year-to-year, horse-to-horse, trainer-to-trainer, you go back to Secretariat and it was a pretty weak Belmont that he ran against [inaudible] you can’t say the game’s going in a certain direction off of one or two years. I think the Triple Crown is still strong.
Tom Jicha:
I ask in terms of – it seems now that trainers like to have four or five weeks between races rather than the short amount of time
Dale Romans:
They do like to, it’s true, but there’s only three-year-old ones and – the history is Derby horses go to Belmont I mean in the Preakness coming off of two weeks and it – there are only three three-year-old classics, so I think people will continue always to show up, it’s just going to be a year-to-year thing.
Tom Jicha:
Okay, thanks a lot for your thoughts.
Operator:
And again, press star one to ask a question. And there are no further questions.
Alicia Hughes:
Dale, before we go and hop off here, I just want to ask real quick. I think I read an interview with you the other day where you talked about your barn in general, maybe going through a little bit of a rebuilding stage right now so to speak; when you have a horse like Everfast jump off and run as big as he did in the Preakness, just how much of that is just an overall morale boost for the whole barn in general?
Dale Romans:
It’s a big boost. We’ve had a slow year this year but I’ve got some good two-year-olds coming in, I’ve got some horses running back into form, some three-year-old… we’re going to be just fine. You’ve heard me say a million times. Wayne Lucas told me when I was a kid, judge yourself on five-year increments or you’ll end up going crazy. Best advice I ever got.
Alicia Hughes:
Sounds good. Like I said, Dale, as always I said, I know you are busy, so once again, always a pleasure. I thank you so much for taking the time out to speak with us today, and I guess I will see you in a handful of days in New York then.
Dale Romans:
Thank you, Alicia, thank you everybody.
Alicia Hughes:
Thanks again. And next up we are going to check in with trainer Tom Amoss who conditions the current queen of the sophomore filly race with Kentucky Oaks winner Serengeti Empress. Serengeti Empress is slated to make her first start since that Oaks triumph in the Grade 1 Acorn Stakes on the Belmont Stakes undercard where she will aim for her second top level triumph and fourth career race stakes win. Tom, thank you so much for joining us on the call this afternoon.
Tom Amoss:
It’s my pleasure, thanks for having me.
Alicia Hughes:
Thank you again. Going back, obviously, when she – When Serengeti Empress, when she captured the Oaks, that was about as emotional as I’ve ever seen you after a win and rightfully so. To get her back to being right that day after what happened at Fair Grounds, where does that rank for you firstly just in terms of your training achievements?
Tom Amoss:
Well, a lot of it has to do with the fact that it was the Kentucky Oaks. It is such rare air for a horse to win a race like that; and for Serengeti Empress a horse that we bought at the sale, and had been a part of her development since the hammer drop back in September of the yearling year… and watching the ups and downs of her two-year-old and three-year-old year and culminating with that win, it was just such a rush of emotions, but I think the overriding emotion was pure joy. And that’s certainly what I was feeling when they crossed the finish line.
Alicia Hughes:
She’s a horse where the talent with her has always been blatantly apparent and her game plan is no secret; she’s just so dangerous when she gets loose on that front end. Have you worked with her in training to see if she can be effective with racing off the pace, or is it more with her – this her best asset and she is either going to fire or lose trying?
Tom Amoss:
Yeah, I think it’s a worthwhile question. First of all, let’s put it all in perspective. The Acorn is a one turn mile and when you start backing up in distance, particularly when you go from two turns to one turn, you’re inviting speed into the race; and certainly that is Serengeti Empress’s strong suit is that she has speed that she can carry around a ground; but now shortening up and going into a one turn race which is what we are doing with the Acorn, you’re going to be asking a lot of Serengeti Empress if you want her to go to the front and maintain against what is probably more pure speed than we saw in the Kentucky Oaks. Having said that, I don’t think you can go into a race like that and say hey we’re going to be in the lead; and certainly we did make that statement leading the Kentucky Oaks. We made no secret of our plans and where we were going to be and it worked out great. It’s different now and we recognize that. Serengeti Empress will still be prominent, of course, and if she’s on the lead, then she’s on the lead, but we’re not married to it as we were going into the Kentucky Oaks. We’re going to see how the race unfolds. We’ve got a great rider in Irad[?] Ortiz and it’s going to be his race to judge.
Alicia Hughes:
Sounds good Tom, like I said. With that, we will throw back to the operator and check in with the media now to see if they have any questions for you.
Operator:
Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star one on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speaker phone, please make sure your mute function is turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment. Once again, press star one to ask a question. We’ll pause just a moment to allow everyone an opportunity to signal for questions.
And we’ll take our first question with Danny Brewer with horseracingscoop.com.
Danny Brewer:
Tom, how are we doing today?
Tom Amoss:
I’m good, Danny. It’s good to hear your voice.
Danny Brewer:
With the Empress, consistency is what any great athlete is looking for. What have you done or not done as far as trying to promote consistency with her, as far as the same training routine, the same eating routine, what do you do to try to make as consistent as you can make her?
Tom Amoss:
Well, any time you are dealing with a developing horse – by consistency, I assume you are talking about going back in time to her two-year-old year leading up to her most recent race at three, and she’s only had three races this year at three. So, having said that, consistency is about knowing your horse and about learning the likes and dislikes. And oftentimes because you can’t simulate a race in the morning, you are learning as you go. With Serengeti Empress, she’s had some excuses in the races she didn’t run well in. Going all the way back to Saratoga and her stakes debut, the rider dropped a stick [inaudible] lane, looking at last year’s Breeders Cup Juvenile Fillies, she really got in tight and was squeezed out of the spot by the winner Jay Hawk, which was good aggressive riding on their part. So, there are things that have gone into each of these races that you would certainly label legitimate excuse; and of course, the most recent inconsistency would be the Fair Grounds Oaks and the fact that she bled. As these things come up, you want to try to see in training if you can correct them. I guess you take them one step at a time. It’s almost like a football team that plays four pre-season games before the regular season starts; you learn about your team, you learn about your athletes, and we learned about her. The most recent setback was of course the fact that she bled and significantly at that at the Fair Grounds Oaks. We did a lot, management-wise, to try to ensure that that wouldn’t happen in the Kentucky Oaks but in the end, it goes back to something I said earlier which is that it is impossible to try to simulate a race in the morning. Although you can be confident that you have developed a good game plan, it’s when it’s out in the field, in how it goes. For us, it went well, we think we’ve learned how to manage that, and we’ll use that same game plan going into the Acorn on 8th June.
Danny Brewer:
How many pinch-yourself moments have you had over the last two or three weeks where you are like wondered did this happen, is this real, because she has just been fantastic for you, I’m sure; so how many of those moments have you had?
Tom Amoss:
For me personally, it’s come in stages. The immediate aftermath of the race I was with my family and some close friends and we all got to share it together not only after the race but that evening. We had a great time with it. And I remember waking up the next morning and the very first words that came out of my mouth were ‘it’s real.’ It really happened. So, there’s that. Then there’s been a stage where, at least for me personally, it’s been the culmination of a career that’s been, at least by my standards, a wonderful career. I’ve gotten to work with animals my whole life. I’ve gotten to work with horses I guess since the time I was in high school. I was able to make a job of it. I was able to raise two children and put them through school and make a nice living at it.
And I know from my friends, not necessarily the ones that were with me but just in general speaking, I’ve gotten to do something that’s rather rare and that is to do something I love and to make a living out of it. I love working with horses; I love working with animals and I feel really blessed in that regard. For me, that win, the Kentucky Oaks, the perspective I looked at it from was here I am on the turf course in the winner’s circle, at Churchill Downs, they only race here twice a year, for the Kentucky Derby and for the Kentucky Oaks, and that’s it, and I’m standing right here with a great athlete who has brought me here, in Serengeti Empress, and who has brought all this to not only myself but the stable, my family. And I thought a lot about all the people that helped me get here from my teachers when I was working my way up to become a trainer to all the owners that put their confidence in me along the way. And I know that may sound clichés but that’s really what went through my mind, and of course, my mum and dad, who don’t really know anything about racing but with six boys they always supported our dreams. That was my dream since I was in middle school and they never did anything but always pushed me towards it.
So, I guess having said all that, the next stage was finally one of real satisfaction, satisfaction that I have won what I consider to be a signature race here in the United States, and I think there are only a few. And I really have gone from excitement and, like I said, pure joy to just tremendous satisfaction not only for myself but for my stable. And if you come into my barn, you’ll see the same faces time and time again. We’ve been together a long time and I take a lot of satisfaction in that.
Danny Brewer:
Tom, keep them rolling, wish you the best of luck, hope that this is just the beginning, alright?
Tom Amoss:
Thank you, my friend.
Operator:
Again, press star one to ask a question. And we’ll take our next question from Tom Jicha with Horse Race Insider.
Tom Jicha:
You are a multi-tasker. You have quite a side career as a commentator on racing telecasts and things on TVG and other places. Could you see that this would maybe hasten the end of your training career as other people have done; and as someone who does comment on racing publicly, what do you think of the situation in California?
Tom Amoss:
Well, I can answer the first question easily. I am going to train as long as I am able. I love being out there in the mornings. I love working with the horses. At least as far as I am concerned, I think that is what defines me; away from the house and as a working individual. The TV stuff, I really enjoy it. I think it’s an opportunity for me to give my viewpoints and my ideas towards racing and give people a chance to see what I am about rather than just a name on the form. But no, that’s not what I am looking to do long term, or, excuse me, that’s not what I’m looking to do to take the place of what I love doing which is training thoroughbred racehorses.
So, having said that I love training thoroughbred racehorses, the California situation is probably a bit mislabeled because to me, it’s the situation with racing in America not just in California, and so anyone that just isolates it as a California situation – and I know you didn’t mean to do it like that, but you give me an opportunity to say this – is not paying attention. This is a situation for thoroughbred racing to recognize. I said it immediately after the Kentucky Oaks in the press conference. We are at a real crossroads here in the United States. And that crossroads is the public perception of what thoroughbred racing is. And if we don’t get our message clearly out that shows that it’s about a love for the animal and that we want to do everything we can to protect those equine athletes on the racecourse, if that message isn’t out loud and clear with a unified voice in the thoroughbred industry, I think we’re in big trouble. And unified is a word that isn’t used much in thoroughbred racing because we don’t have it, and it’s fractured, I realize that, and it’s fractured as much as anything due to medication reform and the things that go with it.
I have said for a long time I don’t care what they do with medication, they can get rid of it all, but the one thing I know to be important is Lasix. I say that as someone who’s been in the industry since I was a kid and has worked on the backside their entire time, as someone that was as an assistant trainer in New York when Lasix was not legal, and I watched what we did to try to simulate a shot of Lasix with the thoroughbreds and it wasn’t always in the horse’s best interests what we did back then. But, and this is a big but, even though I am firmly in the corner of Lasix, I am smart enough to recognize that it’s not just what I think or what perhaps majority of the trainers think on the back side, it is about what the public thinks because the issue is not so much Lasix versus no Lasix, although the insiders know that that’s the case, the issue has become possibly horse racing versus no horse racing, and that’s when you have to take a step back and you have to say enough; if compromises have to be made, to have the public to be a believer in our sport, to be a believer in the people that participate in our sport like myself, then I’m willing to make that compromise even though I may not agree with it personally – and I am telling you I don’t agree with it on the back side of my experience all these years. I am 57 years old, my first job was at age 15 on the back side, I always paid attention, I was always trying to learn, I’ve done it all from a vet assistant to an assistant trainer to a hot walker to a groom. But, once again, I do realize that public perception is everything in our sport as it is in other things and it doesn’t take an HBO 15-minute segment for me to recognize that we have a real issue in horse racing and the sides need to come together. And by the sides, I am talking about Lasix versus no Lasix, because really that’s where it’s boiling down to these days.
Tom Jicha:
Thank you, that was really thorough and thoughtful. I would just like to add – but what do you say to people who – on Kentucky Derby day when the best horses in the country are theoretically there, 99% of the fields are running on Lasix, is it that essential?
Tom Amoss:
I’ll answer that in a roundabout way. Initially California when everything went down, it was said that there was going to be no Lasix used, no medication whatsoever in California back in the beginning of April. And I said to myself this is going to be a great experiment because for those of us that think the vast majority of thoroughbreds bleed, we are going to find out because now we’ve got a real-life situation in one part of the country where no Lasix will be allowed and we are going to see finally one way or another is Lasix important to racing as far as horses bleeding or not bleeding.
It never came to pass because things settled down a little bit and things changed a little bit. But in the end, maybe that’s not what’s important Lasix versus no Lasix. In the end, I think it’s important the public doesn’t think that we are, quote-unquote, ‘drugging’ our horses. No matter how therapeutic it may be. And if we can’t convince the public that what we’re doing is therapeutically good for the horse, I’m of the mindset now that maybe it needs to go.
Tom Jicha:
Again, thank you, that was very thoughtful, thank you.
Operator:
Again, press star one to ask a question. And there are no questions at this time.
Alicia Hughes:
Thank you. Tom, you are, as I said, eloquent as always in your thoughts. Before we let you go, I wanted to ask about Lone Sailor. We got a little bit [inaudible] in the shuffle with everything last week. He’s kind of very quietly had some very good runs lately, he was second in the Oklahoma handicap, third this past week in the Gold Cup at Santa Anita. Do you feel like he is steadily working his way towards running back into his best form?
Tom Amoss:
So, I answered a question about Serengeti Empress earlier and learning the likes and dislikes, and Lone Sailor has run a lot more and is a year older and I’ve also had since the hammer dropped, when he was bought as a yearling when I picked him out, is he’s still a work in progress. And when you look at his most recent race in California, he was put in a position behind horses and was far enough back that by the time they got to the three-eighths pole, the three-eighths of a mile to run, it was evident that he was not going to catch the leaders. He made a good late run and was third; but we’ve got to find a way to – he doesn’t have to entertain the pace early in a race, that’s never going to happen with him, but he’s got to get in better position quicker in the race against these quality horses and that’s what we’re going to be working on with him when he runs back in – for those that wonder if he ever gets in one of those big races and the track happens to be sloppy. When I was growing up, the racing form used to have this asterisk next to a horse’s name for a superior slop horse; they don’t do that anymore. But if they did, he’d have one next to his name.
Alicia Hughes:
Awesome, Tom, sounds good. Again I will let you go and get back to your day but thank you again as always for taking the time out to come on and join us and share your thoughts with everybody today.
Tom Amoss:
Thanks for having me.
Alicia Hughes:
Thanks again Tom and we’ll see you in New York in a few days. And last, but certainly not least, we are going to go to the man whose phone has not stopped buzzing over the last four weeks. Preakness Stakes winning trainer Mark Casse who brings War of Will into the Belmont Stakes as well as Peter Pan winner up Sir Winston. War of Will’s victory in the Preakness marks the first win in the Triple Crown race for Casse who was a Hall of Fame finalist this year. And barring any setbacks, War of Will is also slated to be the only horse this year to compete in all three legs of the Triple Crown. Mark, thank you again for joining us on our call this year.
Mark Casse:
Thanks for having me.
Alicia Hughes:
I think this is your third call already you’ve done for us. That’s got to be some kind of record at this point.
Mark Casse:
I don’t know. It’s usually good if I get to talk to you. Usually. We want to keep it that way.
Alicia Hughes:
We’ll go ahead and keep it that. And while we are talking about some records, since 2015, you won five Breeders Cup races, you’ve trained four individual champions during that time, what was the range of emotions like for you the other week to finally get that first Classic win, especially doing it with a horse that I know you guys had believed from the start had that kind of level to him?
Mark Casse:
Well, it was – what can I say, it was the best feeling and biggest accomplishment I think that I have achieved as a horse trainer. So, it was very, very special.
Alicia Hughes:
I know you’ve talked at length about the raw ability and talent that War of Will has and how he races – just maybe one of the more naturally-talented horses that you’ve trained. How crucial was that in getting him back from that setback that he had in the Louisiana Derby to what he endured in the Kentucky Derby and to now still have something left in the tank after his Preakness win?
Mark Casse:
I think that’s a great question. As I said to somebody the other day, they said oh, you did a wonderful job of getting back and doing so well and I said let’s give War of Will 99.9% of the credit because the only way we would be able to achieve what we did with War of Will was to have a horse like War of Will and they are very far and few between.
Alicia Hughes:
I know obviously, he’s expected to vie for favoritism in the Belmont Stakes but he’s not alone in there, you’ve got Sir Winston that you are also set to go in there as well – when did the Belmont come on the radar specifically for him and what are some of the factors that allowed him to put in that good run in the Peter Pan Stakes after some disappointing efforts in the Tampa Bay Derby and Bluegrass Stakes?
Mark Casse:
Well I wasn’t that disappointed in the Tampa Bay Derby. I knew it was going to be a little short for him and he really came running the last part. So, I wasn’t disappointed in that. I was extremely disappointed in the Bluegrass. But, honestly, I knew going in as the day before and the day of… the way the track was playing, I felt like we had no chance just because it was so speed favoring. I had tried to change that with Chocolate Kiss, as she comes from way back and I tried to keep her closer and it didn’t work; and I just told Julian in the Bluegrass we are not going to do that. We are just going to let him run his race and it is what it is and it just didn’t work.
When we decided to go to the Peter Pan, I liked the distance, it was the mile and an eighth, I thought since it was one turn, he would get a lot of pace and I thought he would come running and Mr. Farmer and I talked about it and we said if he gets us a good effort, we’re going to try to the Belmont. And his effort was big, he ran a hundred bier[?], went the last quarter of a mile in 23 and two and he ran really well. The problem and the question will be, everyone sees a horse running on in a mile and an eighth and says he’ll love a mile-and-a-half. A mile-and-a-half is just an entirely different run type race. A lot of times, the pace isn’t fast and he’s going to still need a pace. He will probably lay a little closer than he did in the Peter Pan, but he needs things to work out to make him effective.
Alicia Hughes:
Sounds good, Mark, like I said. And with that, I will throw it back to our operator to see if the media has any questions for you.
Operator:
Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one. And we’ll take our first question with Danny Brewer with horseracingscoop.com.
Danny Brewer:
Mark, how are you?
Mark Casse:
Good, Danny.
Danny Brewer:
You’ve mentioned something in the past about doing things based on the horse. Finding the right path to get your horses where you want them to be at. Is that something that absolutely has been true with War of Will?
Mark Casse:
Sure. I think – I do try to treat each horse differently. And of course, War of Will has thrown a few little curve balls at us. But for sure – but again, his great mind and great ability is what’s allowed us to do what we’ve done.
Danny Brewer:
As far as the mile-and-a-half at the Belmont, is that something made to order for a horse that is as strong and athletic as he is?
Mark Casse:
I think, again, the Belmont is a funny run race. And it usually helps speed, he’s got plenty of speed. The question and what will decide whether he can go the mile-and-a-half is how willing he is to rate early. He did rate very well in the Preakness but it was an extremely fast pace. So, I think a lot of it is going to depend on just how much Tyler can get him to relax.
Danny Brewer:
Do you have any idea yet how good he is? I mean, do any of us know how good he really is?
Mark Casse:
I don’t think so. He’s always had some obstacle to overcome and he’s always been able to do it. If he were ever to get into some kind of rhythm and – and he did have a rhythm, I shouldn’t say that, he did have some rhythm down in Louisiana, and he did really well, of course, they threw some really crazy post positions, but I still think he’s got improvement, I think he’s even a better horse than you saw in the Preakness.
Danny Brewer:
Very good. Keep him rolling. I wish you the best of luck. Thanks a lot.
Mark Casse:
Thanks Danny.
Operator:
And we’ll take our next question from Frank Angst with Blood Horse.
Frank Angst:
Hey Mark.
Mark Casse:
Hi.
Frank Angst:
Congratulations on the Preakness.
Mark Casse:
Thank you so much.
Frank Angst:
What went into the decision to not work between the Preakness and the Belmont? What went into that decision to prepare for the Belmont?
Mark Casse:
I didn’t breeze in between the Derby and the Preakness as some do. I know we have an extra week. But I just kind of looked at the positives and the negatives and here’s a horse that if he’s not fit now, will never be fit. I thought he lost – I thought he was kind of lean and mean for the Derby; and then looking at him there at the Preakness, he had lost a few pounds even there and that was a concern. And the other thing is, going a mile-and-a-half, do I really want to get him pumped up and on the bridle, and that’s all the work we’d do; so, he’s happy, he’s galloping, he’s a happy horse right now. So, we’re just going to go ahead that way. If he gets beaten in the Belmont, it’s not going to be because of a lack of fitness I promise you that.
Frank Angst:
Yeah. How important has it been to have David Carroll and that setup you have at Keeneland, and how important has it been for this horse?
Mark Casse:
Well, extremely important. For one, to be able to have David, who knows him better than me, probably – David’s had him for a long time. Keeneland is a nice atmosphere and he gets to get out and graze, he’s trained there, it’s just he’s around everybody that he knows. People don’t realize it but that’s the same family that’s he’s been with. And what I mean that’s the same hot walkers, the same grooms, everybody – the same sounds that he’s heard for a long time. And so, I’ve thought about sending him to New York and then I’ve said well, why don’t we send him home where he can relax. I don’t know about everybody else but when I’m home, I relax better.
Frank Angst:
And then one question on Sir Winston. Have you trained horses for Tracy for a long time? How did that relationship come together and what’s he like to work with?
Mark Casse:
Sir Winston is one of the first horses that I’ve trained for anybody…
Frank Angst:
That’s what I was expecting, yeah.
Mark Casse:
Tracy is – the Farmers are very good friends with the Oxleys and so over the years I think Mr. Oxley has kind of ‘[inaudible] to Tracy ‘maybe give Mark a horse to train or two.’ But nothing ever happened. One day we were talking and he said if you saw anything you liked, I’d probably buy it. So, we bought a few horses and then he said I have a few homebreds that I’d like to send you, and I said ok well I’d love to have them, and that’s where Sir Winston came from. This is our first year. So, three-year-olds are the first horses I’ve ever trained for Tracy.
Frank Angst:
He’s been a good guy to work with?
Mark Casse:
Oh, he’s wonderful. He’s a great guy. Both Oxleys and the Farmers are wonderful. The nice part is that they’ve been around and seen it all and don’t it all so you can’t really surprise them. So many people get into their horse racing early on, they’ve been successful in many different parts of their lives and they’re not used to losing. Well, in this game you need to get used to losing because it’s going to happen more than you are going to win.
Frank Angst:
Yeah. Thanks so much Mark. I appreciate it.
Mark Casse:
You’re welcome.
Operator:
And we’ll take our next question from Tim Wilkin with the Albany Times Union.
Tim Wilkin:
Hey Mark.
Mark Casse:
Hey Tim, how are you?
Tim Wilkin:
Good. Great, great. Thanks. How are you? With everything that is going on with this Triple Crown, how do you think the sport is being perceived by the average sports fan? They see the Preakness when the horse gets loose… how do you think…
Mark Casse:
I don’t know how the average fan is doing. I can only tell you people that my wife know and people we’re around that aren’t race fans but watch it once a year or something; they seem to be more intrigued by it. The nice part with Johnny coming off in the Preakness, luckily, he didn’t get hurt, the horse didn’t get hurt and most of the people seemed to be entertained by it. The crazy thing is, and this is how misunderstood our game is, some people ask the question if the horse had been first, what do you want. Luckily, he didn’t finish first, or that would have been just – they’re still having a tough time understanding – my biggest question is – asked of me is, War of Will got bothered worse than anybody in the Derby, why didn’t he win? So, then I have to explain the process.
Tim Wilkin:
You’ve been in the middle of the whole thing, both races.
Mark Casse:
Yeah.
Tim Wilkin:
You win the Preakness and then you have the incident with the derby. Has it been kind of crazy for you in that respect? You go from one gamut to the other?
Mark Casse:
I’ve done a lot of interviews in the last three or four weeks. I would say some of them or a lot of them are because of the controversy that surrounded the Kentucky Derby. Not so much what happened in the Preakness. I’m just hoping we can have a nice quiet Belmont. And I figure – now I’m going to go on record telling every [inaudible] I want to draw the one hole. And it’s going to be something like 2600 to one if we can do it three times in a row.
Tim Wilkin:
I don’t think I would take that bet. Speaking of the Belmont, Mark, I mean if – obviously, you are very confident your horse, but if there was a horse you had to worry about, would it be Bill’s horse, Tacitus?
Mark Casse:
Oh, yeah absolutely.
Tim Wilkin:
Why is that? What do you like about him?
Mark Casse:
Well, Bill is a great trainer and you know, we’re going to his house to play now. He’s got a homefield advantage. The horse shows up every time, runs hard, and I’m sure Bill will have him ready. But I still think I wouldn’t – I think our horse is the horse to beat. Now, if you look at even in the Kentucky Derby, we didn’t get beaten very far by Tacitus and we had loads of trouble. So, I still think – I felt like even in the Preakness, they made Improbable the favourite which I understood with Bob and everything. But if you looked at the Derby and compared, there was no comparison. He had had – he had a relatively good trip, and we had a trip from Down Under and he beat us a length or two. And the same kind of goes for Bill’s horse.
Tim Wilkin:
If you look back before the Louisiana Derby, a lot of people were saying the Derby winner is in Mark Casse’s barn.
Mark Casse:
Yes, and things happened. And I’m still extremely proud even though we have nothing to show for it. War of Will showed up in the Kentucky Derby and was ready to put his best foot forward; unfortunately, things happened which didn’t allow that. I’m still very proud of his effort.
Tim Wilkin:
Alright. Great, Mark. See you in New York.
Mark Casse:
Okay.
Operator:
And we’ll take our next question from Dan Ralph with Canadian Press.
Dan Ralph:
Thank you. Mark, I wonder if you have allowed yourself to think of what might have been in the derby and what you could be lining up for going into the Belmont compared to what you are now?
Mark Casse:
It’s a good question Dan and it’s something I have been asked many a time. Honestly, positively, no. I haven’t worried about that. I am so happy just to be where I am at, that our horse is in one piece, he is healthy, that nothing happened to him in the Derby. I don’t look back at all. And I wouldn’t begin to say that, look, if nothing happened, were we going to win for sure? No, I’m not going to say that. The only thing I would say is that it was going to be one heck of a horse race. And that’s the only thing that I would say about that.
So, no, I’m not going to look back. I know many people are and of course I have people coming to me every day that want to say oh, you could be going for the Triple Crown. It’s not going to happen, so I’m trying to look forward and not back.
Dan Ralph:
Does that change if you win the Belmont?
Mark Casse:
No. If you know me very well, that’s not – no, look, if you know me well at all, you know that’s not the way I think or do things. I’m not going to worry about what could have been. So, if we win the Belmont, you know what the first thing I am going to be thinking? How do we win the Travers? When you see me back at the barn after [inaudible] if we win the Belmont and you say what’s going through Mark Casse’s mind, it’s going to be how do we win the Travers.
Dan Ralph:
Now, let me shift gears up here. What are your thoughts upcoming about the plate, how are your horses look?
Mark Casse:
I think we have a good shot. We have Federal Law, he’s going to come back and run in the plate trial. And then we have Skywire who got beat the other day as the favourite. But I wasn’t disappointed at all; I think he really enjoyed the mile and a quarter. And I think we have a good shot to win the Oaks. So, maybe one of those fillies will run well enough that they deserve a shot at the Queen’s Plate as well.
Dan Ralph:
And then we’ll talk about which one, right?
Mark Casse:
Well, I think yeah. They are owned by different people, so we’re just going to say hope one of them wins.
Dan Ralph:
Alright, we’ll see you up here. Thank you.
Operator:
And we’ll take our next question from John Pricci with horseraceinsider.com.
John Pricci:
Hey Mark. Before we get started –
Mark Casse:
John, how are you?
John Pricci:
– for the Preakness, good job. Doing fine sir, and how to see you in New York. My colleague Tom Jicha asked a question to Tom Amoss a question relative to the California situation and his answer was really comprehensive and far-reaching. So, I am going to ask you to put on your philosophical hat for a minute –
Mark Casse:
Oh dear. And I didn’t get to [inaudible]
John Pricci:
I’m going to recall some of Tom’s response to Tom’s question. And I am just looking at the notes now and –
Mark Casse:
Tom’s a lot smarter than I am – before we start, John.
John Pricci:
Say again.
Mark Casse:
I said Tom’s a lot smarter than I am. So, I just want you to [inaudible] when you get my answers.
John Pricci:
He’s got all that TV practice, don’t kid yourself, I am not buying it, alright? Anyhow, Tom was saying that he firmly believes that racing is at a crossroads in the United States. He talked about the game being fractured. He said that internally it’s probably due to all of the talk about medication reform. And this was as a result of what happened or what’s happening out of California. He said, as far as that is concerned, he doesn’t care necessarily what the rules are but, before we go any further, I have always been firmly in the corner of Lasix. ‘But it’s not about what I think, he said. It’s about what the public thinks. ‘
In California, the no medication or the limited medication ban or whatever they are doing out there, that’s going to be the great experiment. It’s going to be the Lasix people versus the non-Lasix people, so to speak. We are going to find out whether Lasix is important to racing vis-à-vis bleeding and not bleeding. But having said that, he said, while he’s always been firmly in the corner of Lasix, ‘I’m now of the mindset that maybe it has to go,’ and he was talking about public reception. So, I understand I am just throwing a lot of things at you. But what is your heart and your mind telling you about where we are at in this game right now?
Mark Casse:
Obviously, I’m extremely concerned. I think there’s been some mistakes made in California and I know they are trying to correct them. It has nothing to do with Lasix. Nothing whatsoever. What I would like everybody to go and look at is – would love for everyone to look at Woodbine. Woodbine has some of the most lenient drug rules. They have the most lenient procedural rules, but they have the least amount of breakdowns. It is by far – and I train – the difference between most trainers, they train in a certain area, I actually train in a lot of different areas and I have the ability to know what goes on the [inaudible] track and the dirt track.
And I think if you look at those statistics and you say, ‘Well, look, these procedures are allowed up at Woodbine but meanwhile they have the least amount of breakdowns, well, are we not barking up the wrong tree?’ And as far as the perception, I believe, I think it’s – so many times, things are how they are presented. If you go and you said to somebody, well, do you believe in not giving raceday medication, that’s kind of – they don’t really understand it. If you say, well, don’t give them Lasix, again they don’t understand it.
All that being said, I am in the same boat as Tom. If that needs to be the way it’s going to be done and we need to do it to save racing or help racing, then I’m all for it. The problem is – and the people that are trying to decide these things know little bit – have never trained a racehorse or never been around them, I know before we had Lasix, there are people out there that are going to do things – they are going to hold their water, their feed for 24 hours, 48 hours, they are going to do a lot of things that are much worse to a horse than Lasix. So, if you believe that going and taking Lasix is going to be better for racing, it may be better for perception but it’s not going to be better for the horses or races in my opinion. And I base my opinion on – I run a lot of horses, a lot of horses. So, I would ask all these experts and everything, why don’t we dig a little deeper? I think Lasix has as much to do with the problem – I don’t even know where to compare it, but they’re barking up the wrong tree. They are chasing the wrong rabbit in my opinion. I would rather look at the track surface and try to improve that.
John Pricci:
Well, that’s very helpful to know where you think the priorities lie. But Tom was answering the question vis-à-vis – I think he also said it’s going to come down to racing as opposed to no racing. So, just to reiterate that you said just before that whatever rules may or may not change you can live with if it is ultimately good for the game?
Mark Casse:
Absolutely and if that’s what’s good for the game and after studies and investigations, and not based on opinions by people that really have no idea what they are talking about. If that’s what’s best – I said it recently because I have been much outspoken about banning Lasix. But in the last six months I have come out and I have said look, if that’s what needs to be done and you really think it’s going to help, then let’s do it. We can live without the Lasix but it will be purely perception.
John Pricci:
Well, having said that, thank you for a thoughtful answer to the question, and all your horses have a safe trip next weekend, Mark.
Mark Casse:
Well, that’s the most important thing. And as always, John, I look forward to seeing you. I always enjoy talking with you.
John Pricci:
Thank you, sir. Take care.
Operator:
And we’ll take our next question from Jay Privman with Daily Racing Form.
Jay Privman:
Hey Mark, I have two questions for you. First off –
Mark Casse:
You’ve figured out the calculations, right, a strong one –
Jay Privman:
2369 to 1 if it’s a ten-horse field. I knew you’d want to know so I did it for you.
Mark Casse:
Yeah, you’re the one who [inaudible]
Jay Privman:
The first of the two questions I had was if you could speak to – War of Will is going to run in all three legs of the Triple Crown, what does that say about his physical and/or mental make-up that he is able to participate in all three of these races?
Mark Casse:
I think it says a lot especially – I think the Derby was extremely hard on a lot of horses. I think the track surface with the rain and everything was tough on them. And then, I don’t know, there seem to be fewer and fewer horses making all three races. But I think it speaks volumes for him. He comes to play, he’s tough, he’s got knocked around, he runs hard but he’s still there to play again.
Jay Privman:
The second question is sort of related. As a trainer, you sort of alluded to this right after the Preakness in terms of participating in all three Triple Crowns – you said horses only get one chance to do it, that if he was fine you’d run him – But if you could elaborate more on the importance from your perspective as a trainer of running in the classics even when there’s not a Triple Crown on the line?
Mark Casse:
Well, Jay, I’ve been following racing – and now I’m 58 years old – for 50 years. It’s been my life. My dad always said [inaudible] winning, he doesn’t know anything about it, it’s very true. You have to remember when I started following racing, there was no Breeders Cup, there was no Pegasus, there weren’t a lot of these things. Now, there was the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness and Belmont, the three greatest races of all time in North American history. And that hasn’t changed. Maybe I’m wrong but to me, there’s only one Belmont. And if we have a shot and our horse is happy and he’s healthy, we’re going to do our very best to win it. That’s what the Belmont means to me. Maybe I have more respect for the Belmont than others. I don’t know. I know I’ve probably been doing it longer than others. There’s a lot of guys out there probably have been training and maybe only 20 years and 15 years, so maybe it’s not as important to them. But Belmont is important to me. And it’s important to Gary Barber who has followed horse racing his entire life as well.
Jay Privman:
Great. Thank you, Mark, very much.
Mark Casse:
Ok, Jay. See you.
Operator:
There are no further questions.
Alicia Hughes:
Mark, you are now part of our two longest and most popular calls this year. So, again, congratulations, superstar.
Mark Casse:
Okay, well, thank you. You know me, I like to talk and I have opinions.
Alicia Hughes:
I know that.
Mark Casse:
Okay.
Alicia Hughes:
Mark, again, as always thank you again for your time and your thoughts with everything. We look forward to seeing you at Belmont in a few days.
Mark Casse:
Okay. Everyone have a great day. See you soon. Bye.
Alicia Hughes:
And that will do it for this NTRA National Media Teleconference. An audio file of this call will be up later today on ntra.com and a transcript will be there hopefully by tomorrow. Once again, thank you to our guests today, Dale Romans, Tom Amoss and Mark Casse and thank you to all of our participants for joining us today. And now back to our operator to wrap things up.
Operator:
Thank you. And this concludes today’s conference. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect
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